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Complications after starting raw
- Thread starter EllyJ
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- @drchristina @drjeff @drsara
Update:
Since I don't have the money to work with a homeopathic vet right now, we've been going at it alone. I tried several different homeopathic remedies for him, and nothing has worked. We're trying Throat Coat today. He just has a sore throat, right? Just to reiterate, the symptom is a "snort" sound usually when he tries to take a deep breath. (I notice he's not letting himself breathe deeply anymore, which is concerning).
I've been giving him homeopathic remedies for other issues and his BEAM has improved.
He probably won't drink the tea, so I'll have to use a syringe, but how often do I give it, and how long do I give this a shot for?
If this doesn't work, I'll try HomeoPet Cough.
Since I don't have the money to work with a homeopathic vet right now, we've been going at it alone. I tried several different homeopathic remedies for him, and nothing has worked. We're trying Throat Coat today. He just has a sore throat, right? Just to reiterate, the symptom is a "snort" sound usually when he tries to take a deep breath. (I notice he's not letting himself breathe deeply anymore, which is concerning).
I've been giving him homeopathic remedies for other issues and his BEAM has improved.
He probably won't drink the tea, so I'll have to use a syringe, but how often do I give it, and how long do I give this a shot for?
If this doesn't work, I'll try HomeoPet Cough.
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I typically use throat coat + manuka honey 3-4x until the cough abates. You should see improvement within 3 days.
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Yes, thanks for asking Lauren! I am working 1:1 with some HA! community members.
Dr. Todd is awe-some!
My new vet is advising me to stop feeding raw as it could be the cause of the elevated liver enzymes. Here is her reason:
"The raw diet could cause liver inflammation due to bacteria (E coli and Salmonella being the more common ones) - these can get into the bile ducts, which connect to the first part of the small intestine, and then to the liver. Most times, the liver does its job and deals with these but it can cause more serious infections in the biliary tree and liver in rare cases. And also can cause diarrhea/intestinal upset. And human exposure to these pathogens is also a big concern. Dogs tend to be more resistant to these bacteria and therefore more tolerant of raw food than humans are, but they can still be affected and there is no proven benefit to raw over cooked foods. I can understand the theory behind feeding raw, but the reality is with our industrial food production system as it is the risks outweigh any theoretical benefit. Much higher risk of “bad” bacteria contaminating the food than there would be in a “natural” food system. "
Any thoughts? I can see how there might be a higher risk of "bad" bacteria contaminating our current food production.
@Dr. Jeff @Dr. Jean Hofve
"The raw diet could cause liver inflammation due to bacteria (E coli and Salmonella being the more common ones) - these can get into the bile ducts, which connect to the first part of the small intestine, and then to the liver. Most times, the liver does its job and deals with these but it can cause more serious infections in the biliary tree and liver in rare cases. And also can cause diarrhea/intestinal upset. And human exposure to these pathogens is also a big concern. Dogs tend to be more resistant to these bacteria and therefore more tolerant of raw food than humans are, but they can still be affected and there is no proven benefit to raw over cooked foods. I can understand the theory behind feeding raw, but the reality is with our industrial food production system as it is the risks outweigh any theoretical benefit. Much higher risk of “bad” bacteria contaminating the food than there would be in a “natural” food system. "
Any thoughts? I can see how there might be a higher risk of "bad" bacteria contaminating our current food production.
@Dr. Jeff @Dr. Jean Hofve
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Those are indeed the conventional tinking about raw food.
@GinnyW, what do you think (Elly, Ginny is a raw feeding expert with tons of great wisdom)?
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Yeah, I was gonna answer as soon as I saw it
I think it's BS - as you said, the same ol' line. History - generations of wolves and other canids, and all the domesticated dogs hunting, guarding, herding, etc. have eaten raw and sometimes nasty old animal carcasses. They have proven their abilities to handle the common bacteria of putrefaction, including the much-maligned E. coli and salmonella. When we feed good quality raw meats they are getting a variety of friendly challenges, not a death sentence. A kibble-fed dog is about as healthy as a bottle-fed human; both, when fed a prototypical, varied diet, develop the natural intestinal biome which, all by itself, nourishes and controls the type and number of bacteria. Go read, if you like, the list of "inhabitants" on an AnimalBiome panel, and you will realize how unrealistic this simplistic vet view is. We should think of fostering MORE bacteria, not less, and of keeping them in proportion, for an ideally functioning gut.
It's possible that a bit of upset might occur when transitioning an older, poorly fed dog - but this will pass quickly and is easily dealt with. And, as far as "no benefit", I'd just like to show them a few dogs.... (Mine just had dinner: minced raw tripe and organ meats, a big fresh sardine, fish oil, krill oil, a raw egg, and a bunch of raw chicken parts.....(and B3, NMN, HA, collagen protein...) It varies.
I'd treat this vet with kid gloves and a healthy dose of skepticism. She is young enough to learn - but: will she???
Read anything by Ian Billinghurst, and, well, Dunbar, Becker, Goldstein, and virtually all the vets and associates on HA. Don't EVER let one person change your mind all by themselves, on any topic whatsoever. And don't eat factory-farmed anything, yourself or your dogs. It's worth it.
I think it's BS - as you said, the same ol' line. History - generations of wolves and other canids, and all the domesticated dogs hunting, guarding, herding, etc. have eaten raw and sometimes nasty old animal carcasses. They have proven their abilities to handle the common bacteria of putrefaction, including the much-maligned E. coli and salmonella. When we feed good quality raw meats they are getting a variety of friendly challenges, not a death sentence. A kibble-fed dog is about as healthy as a bottle-fed human; both, when fed a prototypical, varied diet, develop the natural intestinal biome which, all by itself, nourishes and controls the type and number of bacteria. Go read, if you like, the list of "inhabitants" on an AnimalBiome panel, and you will realize how unrealistic this simplistic vet view is. We should think of fostering MORE bacteria, not less, and of keeping them in proportion, for an ideally functioning gut.It's possible that a bit of upset might occur when transitioning an older, poorly fed dog - but this will pass quickly and is easily dealt with. And, as far as "no benefit", I'd just like to show them a few dogs.... (Mine just had dinner: minced raw tripe and organ meats, a big fresh sardine, fish oil, krill oil, a raw egg, and a bunch of raw chicken parts.....(and B3, NMN, HA, collagen protein...) It varies.
I'd treat this vet with kid gloves and a healthy dose of skepticism. She is young enough to learn - but: will she???
Read anything by Ian Billinghurst, and, well, Dunbar, Becker, Goldstein, and virtually all the vets and associates on HA. Don't EVER let one person change your mind all by themselves, on any topic whatsoever. And don't eat factory-farmed anything, yourself or your dogs. It's worth it.
Thank you, Ginny. That was a great post. I don't have time to read all the resources, but I believe you. I'll continue with the raw/home-cooked diet. I especially liked your advice on not letting any one person change your mind all by themselves, on anything. Heh, words of wisdom.
Wait, when you say "good quality raw meats," are you talking about pasture-raised, organic, etc.? So mass-produced meat from Raley's probably isn't good enough, huh? She has a good point about our current food production system having a higher likelihood of bad bacteria than what was in the wild.
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Well, yes - if you can. Few of us are so able. It can take a while to nail down good sources, depending on where you live. But remember that canids in the wild are eating som pretty nasty stuff sometime, too, and that they are designed - when they are unimpaired - to deal with huge bacterial loads - long-dead things, nasty animals with nasty things in their own guts. Bacteria are neutral, neither good nor evil, just doing a job, and the unimpaired canid or felid - or eagle, or badger, etc. can handle the load.
The worst meats commercially are pork and chicken, because of the way they are raised. But even then you can certainly feed them, and try/hope to balance out the "evil" thereof. It's not about bacteria as much as just poor husbandry: vaccines, disinfectants, lousy food - and the aura of unhappiness surrounding them. On the other hand, depending on where you are, you may find small suppliers: private farmers, small restaurant providers, specialty operations raising, say, emu, or lamb, or goats, or ducks, or spent dairy cows, or unwanted bull calves. Once, years ago, my informal group was offered a full-grown bull, who, in the course of trying to transport him for breeding, had gotten loose and trapped himself under a truck. The owner dispatched him and my friends and I went and butchered him up in place - after several days of his sitting in hot summer sun. He was ever after famous as the "stinky bull" - but, boy, the dogs thought we were gods
So, look around, ask around, see what folks are doing. I am presently in a huge buying coop that drops orders in parking lots. I also buy chickens from the super, and beef from the raw milk dairy. And in the meantime while you are developing sources, there are MANY brands of roll foods that never used to exist - pricy but great quality. Feed a bit of great stuff and fill in with junk meats. Use digestive supplements for the biome, varying brands and formulas. And know that ANY raw is way better than any processed junk.
I switched him to a home-cooked diet because I was worried about the possibility of salmonella and other diseases in an elderly dog. Do you think that was a good decision? I'm grateful not to have to handle raw meat all the time, that's for sure
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As long as it's a good balanced recipe, cooking does not make that much difference in nutrition. You can add probiotics and digestive enzymes to make up for what is damaged by heat.
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Elly,
Dr. Jeff's suggestion of working with a veterinary homeopath is super worth pursuing. There are over 7,000 remedies to select from, so while we do suggest a few for acute, mild problems, when you have progressive problems, especially in older animals, having a professional prescribe is critical.
Your key job is all the suggestions Dr. jeff made of happiness protocol, listening to our many speakers on how our mind set makes a big difference in healing.
Also, I suggest downloading and printing out the Healthy Dog Journal, filling it out and tracking all the symptoms weekly if not more frequently. Especially record the fun times you have together.
Learning more about the principles of homeopathy will help you understand how Pumpkin is responding to any treatments or lifestyle changes you make and will help your veterinary homeopath give the best treatments.
Love every moment, remember there is no one right answer, no one expert and we are all on a journey of life, health and love.
Pumpkin is blessed to be living with you.
Dr. Christina
Dr. Jeff's suggestion of working with a veterinary homeopath is super worth pursuing. There are over 7,000 remedies to select from, so while we do suggest a few for acute, mild problems, when you have progressive problems, especially in older animals, having a professional prescribe is critical.
Your key job is all the suggestions Dr. jeff made of happiness protocol, listening to our many speakers on how our mind set makes a big difference in healing.
Also, I suggest downloading and printing out the Healthy Dog Journal, filling it out and tracking all the symptoms weekly if not more frequently. Especially record the fun times you have together.
Learning more about the principles of homeopathy will help you understand how Pumpkin is responding to any treatments or lifestyle changes you make and will help your veterinary homeopath give the best treatments.
Love every moment, remember there is no one right answer, no one expert and we are all on a journey of life, health and love.
Pumpkin is blessed to be living with you.
Dr. Christina
Thank you, Dr. Christina. I am working with Dr. Christine Barrett. We started a few weeks ago..
Pumpkin is a good dog, but to be honest, I get tired of him following me around so much! ☺I love him but I'm wondering if I'm more or a cat person! Maybe some of the velcro-ness is due to the dental pain, we'll see. But he deserves a good life; he's a good, loyal dog.
Blessings,
Elly
Pumpkin is a good dog, but to be honest, I get tired of him following me around so much! ☺I love him but I'm wondering if I'm more or a cat person! Maybe some of the velcro-ness is due to the dental pain, we'll see. But he deserves a good life; he's a good, loyal dog.
Blessings,
Elly
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While the velcro dog may change after several remedies with Dr. Barrett, I would strongly suggest EFT, emotion code, spiritual code, flower essences, and maybe a few animal communicator sessions.
If it developed soon before the dental issues, it would be very likely to resolve with homeopathic care.
Keep us posted after Dr. Barrett's prescriptions so all in the community can learn the process of homeopathy.
Another way to approach the velcro dog syndrome is to focus on distractions not needing you to do them - snuffle mat (one member's dog snuffles for hours at a time), food filled games, TV watching, etc.
Maybe lots more energy is needed to be expended during the day - play, walks by local youth, etc.
Dr. Christina
If it developed soon before the dental issues, it would be very likely to resolve with homeopathic care.
Keep us posted after Dr. Barrett's prescriptions so all in the community can learn the process of homeopathy.
Another way to approach the velcro dog syndrome is to focus on distractions not needing you to do them - snuffle mat (one member's dog snuffles for hours at a time), food filled games, TV watching, etc.
Maybe lots more energy is needed to be expended during the day - play, walks by local youth, etc.
Dr. Christina
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Elly, I hear your frustration. Breathe and take care of You and you will have more patience, love and compassion. What do you need?
I would pay attention to Pumpkin and Journal in Dr Christina’s Jounal. See how Pumpkin likes the cooked vs. Raw. You may want to do both.
Keeping a close eye and Record of it in the Journal of her BEAM will help you. It helped me establish patterns I would have missed! For example, everytime he vomitted, he has eaten something outside!!
Learn more about feeding. I have been gifting Dr Judy Morgans Book to people to have Homemade Recipes! She also has free recipes and a Free 5 Element Quiz on her site. She gives suggestions of specific foods that tend to be good for the different elements.
I have seen Raw work Miracles! I am a big believer! That said, sometimes, my Cat wants it cooked and I honor his keen intuition!
They speak and we need to listen and honor their wishes and needs and innate wisdom.
Homeopathy worked Miracles for us too! It took a year of a different remedy each Month, but we Reversed Kidney Damage!!!! So stay the course and be patient!
We’re here and HA has tons of resources…check them out!
Best Wishes
I would pay attention to Pumpkin and Journal in Dr Christina’s Jounal. See how Pumpkin likes the cooked vs. Raw. You may want to do both.
Keeping a close eye and Record of it in the Journal of her BEAM will help you. It helped me establish patterns I would have missed! For example, everytime he vomitted, he has eaten something outside!!
Learn more about feeding. I have been gifting Dr Judy Morgans Book to people to have Homemade Recipes! She also has free recipes and a Free 5 Element Quiz on her site. She gives suggestions of specific foods that tend to be good for the different elements.
I have seen Raw work Miracles! I am a big believer! That said, sometimes, my Cat wants it cooked and I honor his keen intuition!
They speak and we need to listen and honor their wishes and needs and innate wisdom.
Homeopathy worked Miracles for us too! It took a year of a different remedy each Month, but we Reversed Kidney Damage!!!! So stay the course and be patient!
We’re here and HA has tons of resources…check them out!
Best Wishes
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Yes!! ? ??
I'm a bit confused by all the different energy medicine modalities. I already do acupressure, a little bit of Jin Shin Jyustu, flower essences, and crystal healing on him, and he's received Emotion Code before. I guess I'm wondering if I should learn Emotion/Body Code (because family members also get sessions and it's getting expensive). How do you know which ones to use?
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