I would like to ask about another one of my dogs different than the one I have been posting about. JJ is a 14 year old Shar-Pei mix. Maybe he is older. He seems older compared to my other dog Gabby who acts like a pup at 14. At any rate, poor JJ has spondylosis. He never seems happy other than when he gets pet or allowed to sleep in the car. His appetite is good. His energy is poor. He has been getting this acupuncture and laser for about a year and a half or so. Thought it had been helping but over the last few months his stride has become shortened and I hear him klunk down the steps. Still try and take him for little walks of about 15 minutes but mostly he just sniffs. So he doesn't go very far but after his acupuncture treatment thursday he is limping now on his fronts and he is out walking for only a few minutes. In other words he seems WORSE after the treatment. How is this possible? I see him struggling and I was just crying today. Over the years I have given him Dasuquin, Vetri Disc, fish oil, Cosequin DS. (not all at once). I just started to give him the RX vitamins Hemp Oil 8-10 drops 2-3 times a day now. Any suggestions as to what I need to do. I just saw a video on Testosterone for dogs that have been spayed and neutered. It really helps with joints, muscle mass and quality of life. Too bad the nearest vet who does this is 5.5 hrs from me. The Dr. who started using it had a paralyzed dog who was able to walk after this treatment and lived another 4 years. So it makes me sad to see my JJ struggle because I don't have easy access to this which I feel would help tremendously. Dogs are PTS for mobility issues that could be mitigated. I don't see miraculous results with what the holistic vet is doing with the acupuncture nor any miracles with supplements. Maybe it slowed things down some but this last time he is worse than he was before the day he got it. What could have gone wrong at this time. What else can I try with him? I thought acupunture and laser were the gold standard for spondylosis. BTW, one other thing, she stretches his back legs out (she did not do it this time though) and he yelps. He is very stoic (she said and I agree) which is why I think he is in way more pain than he lets on.
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Can a dog be worse after acupuncture treatment?
- Thread starter LilF
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2020
- Messages
- 60
Have you tried curcumin? So many people swear by it. Might be worth trying a high dog dose for a month or so? I think liposomal is the best.
Also you should try a grounding sheet or mat, apparently effective for arthritis and other inflammatory conditions. You should use it yourself too - we all need more negative ions.
Also you should try a grounding sheet or mat, apparently effective for arthritis and other inflammatory conditions. You should use it yourself too - we all need more negative ions.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2017
- Messages
- 5,838
I'm so sorry Lil to hear about JJ. 
Yes, it is possible that he worsened after the acupuncture session. However, ideally this would be followed by continued improvement.
Thank you, Edwin for your super suggestions.
Lil, you might want to consider focusing on his cellular energy to optimize his ability to heal. The acupuncture and laser can help, but there are additional strategies.
Increasing negative ions is one way and would be wonderful to try. Just put an ionbox 12-36 inches from his face whenever he is resting and sleeping (which it sounds like is most of the time).
www.holisticactions.com
Two of my favorite methods are promoting sniffing and petting. Therapeutic sniff walks are a wonderful way to do this and work really well. He doesn't need to walk much in order to benefit from these, Just take him out on a leash and let him sniff around as much as he wants.
In addition, since he already loves his petting, perhaps focus on doing even more of it. Manual therapies like petting and massage are known t raise energy and will help him feel better and heal.
Supplement wise, you may want to add a hyaluronic acid supplement like Trixsyn or Adequan.
Ellevet CBD is also worth trying if the Rx Hemp isn't helping.
www.ellevetsciences.com
Regarding the testosterone and anabolic (or other) steroids. Yes, they will help some dogs with arthritis, but not others (especially if they have severe dis-ease and structural changes like in JJ's back).
You may also want to start using an Assisi Loop 4x a day.
assisianimalhealth.com
www.holisticactions.com
There are lots of other suggestions in the last webinar and other resources in your member area.
Please keep us updated about JJ
Yes, it is possible that he worsened after the acupuncture session. However, ideally this would be followed by continued improvement.Thank you, Edwin for your super suggestions.
Lil, you might want to consider focusing on his cellular energy to optimize his ability to heal. The acupuncture and laser can help, but there are additional strategies.
Increasing negative ions is one way and would be wonderful to try. Just put an ionbox 12-36 inches from his face whenever he is resting and sleeping (which it sounds like is most of the time).
Helping all Pets Using Vitality From Negative Ions
Hi @everyone- I am about to go out for a therapeutic sniff walk with Archie, but would like to share one important tip. It's about the potential of increasing cellular energy, vitality and healing using negative using ions. It's the same healing effect that occurs whenever pets or people are...
www.holisticactions.com
Two of my favorite methods are promoting sniffing and petting. Therapeutic sniff walks are a wonderful way to do this and work really well. He doesn't need to walk much in order to benefit from these, Just take him out on a leash and let him sniff around as much as he wants.
In addition, since he already loves his petting, perhaps focus on doing even more of it. Manual therapies like petting and massage are known t raise energy and will help him feel better and heal.
Supplement wise, you may want to add a hyaluronic acid supplement like Trixsyn or Adequan.
Ellevet CBD is also worth trying if the Rx Hemp isn't helping.
CBD For Your Pets
Support your pet with ElleVet Sciences CBD and CBDA for pets. We are the first and only company to conduct clinical trials with proven results.
www.ellevetsciences.com
Regarding the testosterone and anabolic (or other) steroids. Yes, they will help some dogs with arthritis, but not others (especially if they have severe dis-ease and structural changes like in JJ's back).
You may also want to start using an Assisi Loop 4x a day.
Pet Owners - Assisi Animal Health
assisianimalhealth.com
Assisi Loop
This was brought up by Dr. Katie Kangas in an Empower Hour (dated 1/28/2019). I got one from her :) Should it not be used it when one is undergoing homeopathic treatment, even when using homeopathy for palliative care?
www.holisticactions.com
There are lots of other suggestions in the last webinar and other resources in your member area.
Please keep us updated about JJ
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2018
- Messages
- 326
I agree with Edwin and Dr. Jeff that you have more options.
Most dogs feel better after acupuncture, but if their energy level is low to begin with, the acupuncture can apparently temporarily deplete the energy by opening the meridians and moving energy around the body more. The dog will slowly feel better, but for dogs with poor energy levels, it is better to concentrate on increasing energy, and the supplements and practices described above will do that.
Acupressure would be a good adjunct treatment that you can do at home. The Schwartz book "Four Paws, Five Directions" can help you with that. Your boy should like it, as a lot of acupressure can be described as petting with a purpose.
I would also consider Red Light Therapy; I like this company.
equinelighttherapy.com
The equipment is easy to use, and not too expensive.
I wonder if the trip in the car to see the vet might be a little difficult for your old fellow. Is it easy for him to get into and out of the car? Does he slide around at all during the drive? Be sure that you have good steps or a ramp, and he is stable during the trip. Any jolting will aggravate his spondylosis and could make him sore.
I'm sure that your holistic vet does not intend to hurt your old guy. We should never do anything that is painful to an animal, unless the benefit definitely outweighs the discomfort. Animal physical therapists do not stretch joints to the point of discomfort because that puts the muscle into spasm. Passive stretching is fine, to the point of resistance, but not beyond, and certainly not to the point of pain. It is also fine to encourage your dog to stretch (cookie stretches, for instance), as they will not stretch beyond their comfort limit.
Stay well,
Dr. Sara
Most dogs feel better after acupuncture, but if their energy level is low to begin with, the acupuncture can apparently temporarily deplete the energy by opening the meridians and moving energy around the body more. The dog will slowly feel better, but for dogs with poor energy levels, it is better to concentrate on increasing energy, and the supplements and practices described above will do that.
Acupressure would be a good adjunct treatment that you can do at home. The Schwartz book "Four Paws, Five Directions" can help you with that. Your boy should like it, as a lot of acupressure can be described as petting with a purpose.
I would also consider Red Light Therapy; I like this company.
According to "Gospel"...Equine Light Therapy®-Canine Light TherapyWelcome to Affordable Light Therapy for Horses and Dogs!
Equine & Canine Light Therapy! Photonic energy, red light therapy, photobiomodulation. Same healing energy as a laser at a fraction of the cost. Safe, effective, affordable, easy to use light therapy pads for horses, dogs and all animals.
equinelighttherapy.com
I wonder if the trip in the car to see the vet might be a little difficult for your old fellow. Is it easy for him to get into and out of the car? Does he slide around at all during the drive? Be sure that you have good steps or a ramp, and he is stable during the trip. Any jolting will aggravate his spondylosis and could make him sore.
I'm sure that your holistic vet does not intend to hurt your old guy. We should never do anything that is painful to an animal, unless the benefit definitely outweighs the discomfort. Animal physical therapists do not stretch joints to the point of discomfort because that puts the muscle into spasm. Passive stretching is fine, to the point of resistance, but not beyond, and certainly not to the point of pain. It is also fine to encourage your dog to stretch (cookie stretches, for instance), as they will not stretch beyond their comfort limit.
Stay well,
Dr. Sara
I did increase his curcumin today but afterthought maybe I should increase it more slowly. Gave him 1600 mg today. He usually gets 500mg. How very interesting you mentioned the grounding mat. I used to be more into this years ago and I have a mat plugged in on the landing of the foyer that he gravitates to. Funny how he does go there intuitively now that you mention it. It must make him feel better. Will look into what else I can incorporate, like a sheet. Thanks for sharing these thoughts and ideas!
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2019
- Messages
- 636
Hi @LilF - based on my experience, each dog is different. My previous pup, Koby, would respond favorably immediately after an acupuncture treatment. However, I thought Hope, my current pup, got worse right after her first (and only) acupuncture treatment. But then she got better the following day. Perhaps the vet visit was too stressful for her. So for now, I opted to do as much as I can to help her at home, without going to the vet. [we're not allowed to go in with her still.]
I take her out for short sniff walk (she doesn't walk long and far due to fear; she was a stray) every day and she gets at least 20 minutes of snuffle session at home.
She gets Assisi treatment 2-3x per day, CBD oil (she will soon be on ElleVet oil per Dr Jeff's recommendation), IonBox, and some AnimalEO oils for mobility issues (it's called "New Mobility). I have started ozone therapy on her via rectal insufflation and it's working wonders. As for food, I make sure she gets bone broth every day [she's raw fed]. Hope has been on this protocol [except ozone therapy] for a little more than a month and I have noticed a big difference in her mobility (not to mention increase in her BEAM).
Oh, I would recommend the Red Light Therapy device per Dr. Sara's recommendation. I did research on it and spoke to the owner...It's a great device to have for our fur babies and ourselves!
I hope this helps!
I take her out for short sniff walk (she doesn't walk long and far due to fear; she was a stray) every day and she gets at least 20 minutes of snuffle session at home.
She gets Assisi treatment 2-3x per day, CBD oil (she will soon be on ElleVet oil per Dr Jeff's recommendation), IonBox, and some AnimalEO oils for mobility issues (it's called "New Mobility). I have started ozone therapy on her via rectal insufflation and it's working wonders. As for food, I make sure she gets bone broth every day [she's raw fed]. Hope has been on this protocol [except ozone therapy] for a little more than a month and I have noticed a big difference in her mobility (not to mention increase in her BEAM).
Oh, I would recommend the Red Light Therapy device per Dr. Sara's recommendation. I did research on it and spoke to the owner...It's a great device to have for our fur babies and ourselves!
I hope this helps!
Last edited:
First, I am so overwhelmed with the generosity of information here for my JJ (and for my Gabby with her PLE Thank you all). I have to go and study it all for JJ. Will definitely order the light to get this week. Regarding the car, funny how dogs do thinks instinctively (like how he gravitates to the grounding mat I just happened to have around). So what JJ does is when I hit a bump or we go on the freeway, he goes to the floor of the car in the backseat. It is like a "straightjacket" kind of effect if you ask me but the spine is not in good alignment! He is snuggled in that small space and seems to spend most of the time there. Again, instinctive--glad you mentioned this. I was putting a coat on him which seems to have some compression effects--would that help to use more? So last question for now: Would you suggest avoiding the acupuncture for now? I contacted the vet to see if he needed a "tune up" but thought I would just do the laser. What do you think? ThanksI agree with Edwin and Dr. Jeff that you have more options.
Most dogs feel better after acupuncture, but if their energy level is low to begin with, the acupuncture can apparently temporarily deplete the energy by opening the meridians and moving energy around the body more. The dog will slowly feel better, but for dogs with poor energy levels, it is better to concentrate on increasing energy, and the supplements and practices described above will do that.
Acupressure would be a good adjunct treatment that you can do at home. The Schwartz book "Four Paws, Five Directions" can help you with that. Your boy should like it, as a lot of acupressure can be described as petting with a purpose.
I would also consider Red Light Therapy; I like this company.
The equipment is easy to use, and not too expensive.According to "Gospel"...Equine Light Therapy®-Canine Light TherapyWelcome to Affordable Light Therapy for Horses and Dogs!
Equine & Canine Light Therapy! Photonic energy, red light therapy, photobiomodulation. Same healing energy as a laser at a fraction of the cost. Safe, effective, affordable, easy to use light therapy pads for horses, dogs and all animals.
I wonder if the trip in the car to see the vet might be a little difficult for your old fellow. Is it easy for him to get into and out of the car? Does he slide around at all during the drive? Be sure that you have good steps or a ramp, and he is stable during the trip. Any jolting will aggravate his spondylosis and could make him sore.
I'm sure that your holistic vet does not intend to hurt your old guy. We should never do anything that is painful to an animal, unless the benefit definitely outweighs the discomfort. Animal physical therapists do not stretch joints to the point of discomfort because that puts the muscle into spasm. Passive stretching is fine, to the point of resistance, but not beyond, and certainly not to the point of pain. It is also fine to encourage your dog to stretch (cookie stretches, for instance), as they will not stretch beyond their comfort limit.
Stay well,
Dr. Sara
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2017
- Messages
- 5,838
You're welcome, Lil! I'm grateful that we get to work together through HA! It's truly a pleasure (and 25 year dream come true).
Yes, further compression, as with hugging, holding, or a Thundershirt, etc. could help.
The more time that he's happy, the better he'll be.
Sure, just use the laser for now to see how that affects him by itself.
Yes, further compression, as with hugging, holding, or a Thundershirt, etc. could help.
The more time that he's happy, the better he'll be.
Sure, just use the laser for now to see how that affects him by itself.
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2018
- Messages
- 12
I agree with everyone responding. Acupuncture is a deep acting modality. Like any medicine, holistic and conventional, you can have 3 reactions to treatment, suppression, palliation, or cure. I am not an acupuncturist, but I did have a case of a dog being treated for a CCL with acupuncture. By the end of the week the dog developed paralysis in all 4 legs. To me this was suppression secondary to the acupuncture treatment. He was successfully treated with homeopathy. Everyone is different so they need to be assessed individually. You have many good options to help your best friend.
Thank you Dr. Jeff.... I started using the Assisi loop---had not used it for a while consistently but now I am. Yes, think it is time to switch to another CBD. I hear so many good things about it but don't see them in JJ with my current brand. Maybe has lost its potency since I had it a while. JJ likes petting but I try to get him out to sniff and mostly he just wants to go back in the house or car. He loves the car (his cave). If I take him to the park he will sniff more than he walks or he just stands and looks. He has also exhibited more fear to noises I make in the kitchen. I had stopped using the Purina Calming Care which helped him so maybe will start that OR, the response to noises could be in reaction to his level of pain? Don't know if he is in pain for sure. I did take him for laser last friday and he did walk more that day. He did finish his food that day too. Lately he has been leaving about 1/4 in his bowl uneaten. So that is a decline in his BEAM. All since that acupuncture treatment. So I am left to wonder if I should do the acupuncture again when we go March 18th or just do laser. He still loves petting and will get the book Dr. Sara recommended for acupressure and I will get the ion machine this week. You guys are so helpful with real stuff to try and great explanations. I so appreciate and glad I joined...I'm so sorry Lil to hear about JJ.
Thank you, Edwin for your super suggestions.
Lil, you might want to consider focusing on his cellular energy to optimize his ability to heal. The acupuncture and laser can help, but there are additional strategies.
Increasing negative ions is one way and would be wonderful to try. Just put an ionbox 12-36 inches from his face whenever he is resting and sleeping (which it sounds like is most of the time).
Helping all Pets Using Vitality From Negative Ions
Hi @everyone- I am about to go out for a therapeutic sniff walk with Archie, but would like to share one important tip. It's about the potential of increasing cellular energy, vitality and healing using negative using ions. It's the same healing effect that occurs whenever pets or people are...
Two of my favorite methods are promoting sniffing and petting. Therapeutic sniff walks are a wonderful way to do this and work really well. He doesn't need to walk much in order to benefit from these, Just take him out on a leash and let him sniff around as much as he wants.
In addition, since he already loves his petting, perhaps focus on doing even more of it. Manual therapies like petting and massage are known t raise energy and will help him feel better and heal.
Supplement wise, you may want to add a hyaluronic acid supplement like Trixsyn or Adequan.
Ellevet CBD is also worth trying if the Rx Hemp isn't helping.
CBD For Your Pets
Support your pet with ElleVet Sciences CBD and CBDA for pets. We are the first and only company to conduct clinical trials with proven results.
Regarding the testosterone and anabolic (or other) steroids. Yes, they will help some dogs with arthritis, but not others (especially if they have severe dis-ease and structural changes like in JJ's back).
You may also want to start using an Assisi Loop 4x a day.
Pet Owners - Assisi Animal Health
Assisi Loop
This was brought up by Dr. Katie Kangas in an Empower Hour (dated 1/28/2019). I got one from her :) Should it not be used it when one is undergoing homeopathic treatment, even when using homeopathy for palliative care?
There are lots of other suggestions in the last webinar and other resources in your member area.
Please keep us updated about JJ
