Hypersalivation

[LilF]

I was wondering what I am dealing with NOW? Blossom, about 4, best estimated age seems to have started hypersalivating since yesterday. This has not been noticed before in the 5 months I had her. She does not appear in pain or distress and appetite and elimination are good. One day this week she threw up about a tablespoon of what looked like bile. I fed her raw heart the day before and gave her a new calming supplement the day before from some herbs I never heard of, Platanus Bark and Souroubea as active ingredients and Artificial Beef as one of the other ingredients along with potassium sorbate. I have not given the calming supplement to her in a few days now. It was a supplement that was mentioned on a recent webinar (not a HA! webinar) so I bought it. I read online of possible causes of hypersalivaton, dental, kidney, liver but the sudden onset is worrisome. I was hoping not to have any issues with a dog for years. When I had JJ, died last year over 15---I remember he drooled before and after some syncope even he had 6 months before he died. I did not notice anything like that with Blossom. I fed her heart again last night but now threw the rest out. There is already enough to deal with, given her car anxiety and her upcoming OSS surgery in a few months. I am going to be worthless to her because I have little energy left that I had with the other 2 dogs to deal with medical issues "already,"

 

[GinnyW]

I'd stop that new supplement. And I'd stop trying to drug her way out of issues. Look in her mouth for stuff stuck in her teeth. Get rid of that crap artificial beef. Feed food. Keep track of symptoms. Is she nauseous? Pooping OK?

 

[Dr. Jeff]

How is she now Lil? How was her BEAM before, during and since the episode?

 

[LilF]

Dr. Jeff, her BEAM (glad to have this tool by the way to assess a symptom) was actually fine which surprised me when I saw the drips. I thought it was urine dripping because sometimes I DO smell urine AS IF she was leaking. (not sure if this is a BEAM thing) Puzzles me because she is not spayed or in heat but I get a whiff sometimes. I am stopping at the vets office this afternoon for another reason and if he isn't busy I will run it by him too. I indeed stopped the stress supplement that was questionable (brand and herbs) I do not think some of the more common supplements to activate the parasympathetic nervous system are harmful or bad. I, myself have had GABA recommended for me along with melatonin both of which help sleep quality and subsequent "human BEAM" I just checked her sleeping space where she is lying down and it is dry. Maybe she did have a piece of bone fragment stuck.... I purchased a chub of raw turkey comprised of bone, liver and muscle meat. I noticed there are pieces of bone fragments that are pretty sharp (small about 2 inches long). Are those ok to eat? I have been picking them out since her hypersalivation wondering if they could get stuck and/or cause gut perforation? I contacted the company and asked if the bones should be ground up. It is a good product, pasture fed, human grade, not fed a soy based diet etc... so I would like to keep buying it except for the raw bone fragments or are those ok---dogs would eat them in the wild I suppose. Can you weigh in on that. I am relatively new to this type of raw feeding where the food DOES look like animal insides versus a "patty." Thanks!!

 

[GinnyW]

Well, as the resident "bone person", I think would pick those larger bones out, or whack them to break them up further. I've had issues here with turkey bones, so am rather more cautious than I am about most others. With turkey, I like neckbones, big flat keel bones, tails, shoulder blades (backs) - nothing primarily weight-bearing, no leg bones or knuckles. Every dog is different; some have more enzymes, or a more thorough chewing style. Some things get pondered and masticated; others slide right down way too quickly See, if youi think my attitude is a bit cavalier, I assure you it is not, after three big Amstaffs and about 25 years of my own worries.

I think you have a good product there; just be alert. And continue providing as many good food sources as you can, one meal at a time.

And yeah, she may get a bit whiffy now and then; they don't have toilet paper. Just wipe her with a wet washcloth. With her being a girl, she may have some hormonal fluctuations, but you should be able to discern if there is a constant or foul odor. This will all resolve with the spay, of course.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Are those ok to eat?

Sharp small pieces are potentially problematic. I agree with Ginny to just pick 'em out.

 

[LilF]

@Dr. Jeff Just wanted to cut and paste.... I emailed the company and this is what they said.... However, I do agree with you and my previous gut feeling to just pick them out. They are like little daggers and just seem they could get lodged someplace. The product is glyphosate tested and from a company I buy some of my own food from. But those sharp bones just made me concerned. Like Dr. Christina was discussing on one of the last webinars, addressing my cognitive dissonance with all the whiplash information on what is good or not good, what is ok and what is not. It all comes down to my gut making the decision based on all the opinions. Like I said I agree, the bones should be picked out. Thank you for the explanation and just FYI, here is what they emailed me back: "The whole turkeys were ground using the largest plate available. Each package of raw ground turkey contains bone pieces. The bones are not an issue for pets because they are raw bones and not cooked. Cooked bones become rubbery while still having sharp ends, which is how pets end up with punctured intestines. Raw bones splinter and break into small pieces during chewing, which allows their digestive system to process them. Dogs and cats are equipped with far stronger stomach acids and much shorter intestinal tracts than humans, to enable them to eat a species-appropriate diet of raw meat, bones, and organs."

 

[GinnyW]

Yeah....nothing they say is basically untrue. However, I just don't take chances. Sometimes dogs just don't bother chewing - they just try to swallow whenever they feel something will go down - I've seen HUGE things vanish, and just say to myself that I'll keep an eye out for that bit. Dogs come in many sizes and styles. So I think that, without casting any negligence on the producer, I alway reserve the right to decide what slides down the maw.

My "turkey bone" incident involves a knuckle off a drumstick which lodged at the top - inside - of the rectum. One would have expected this to have been masticated, or further degraded by stomach acid, but it stuck, and no amount of enemas, violent exercise, etc. budged it - had to go fishing with a BIG hemostat, poor kid....So I don't feed turkey shanks or drums without whacking the heck out of the knuckles and tossing the long bones in the soup collection. Nuttin' wrong with exercising caution.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Thanks for the info Lil. As Ginny says, the information the company provided is true but it's probably not worth taking a chance.

Go with your gut!

 

[Dr. Christina]

Checking in on Blossom - is she still drooling? Is there still the occasional whiff of urine odor? When you smell that - sniff her mouth and butt.

glad you are sleeping better - that will help your overwhelm sense. Remember there is no one correct answer.

My two bits on bones - Animals in the wild do not debone their prey and most seem to live fine ingesting sharp pieces of bone. I often cringed when I saw the bone shards I was feeding my cats after I whacked necks and backs into smaller pieces, and they were fine.

Dr. Christina