Help with rubrics for animal symptoms

[merrynb]

Any suggestions for rubrics for these symptoms:

1) Smelly front paws (cat). I assume there is some kind of chronic nailbed infection, but nothing obvious that I can see. Not keen on me examining her paws, but don't seem to be painful

2) Laminitis (sheep). Not sure if you are familiar with this, it's where the outside horn of the hoof separates from the inner part of the hoof. There is inflammation at the nailbed. No smell, but I know it's tender and makes walking a bit painful. Sensitive to being touched. Feels warm.

3) Fleece rot (sheep). I'm not totally sure if this is what Popcorn has, but if not, something similar. It started when there was a period of wet weather after she was shorn. Yellow/orange smelly exudate on parts of her back. It can be seen in the wool. Worse in wet weather. Pretty sure it would not be an issue in a dry climate. I believe it's due to some kind of bacterial infection in the skin. It makes her vulnerable to flystrike, as flies are attracted to the smell. She had flystrike twice this season, whereas my other 2 sheep didn't have it at all, despite the flystrike species of fly being around

That's all for now, thanks : )

 

from Merryn

 

 

 

 

[Dr. Christina]

Hello Merryn - Is there a New Zealand phrase for "good morning" or "hello"?

I do not have my repertory with me at the holistic veterinary retreat I am at, so can give you some suggestions for now - more later

First, what rubrics have you already found?

1. You are probably already working to let her allow you to examine her feet carefully at any time. For now, try to quantify the odor, describe it, then see if it changes during the day or from day to day. To be useful, rubrics do need to be very accurate, so though "extremities, odor, feet" fits what you say, it is not very accurate so until you have more information I would not use that.

2. A general comment: Inflammation = pain, heat, swelling, redness and loss of function. When you have more than one of those symptoms, using the inflammation rubric for that area is best.

3. Herd animals can be a bit more difficult to prescribe for since you do want a "three-legged stool" with symptoms in different parts of the body, and often behavior (temperature seeking, friendly or not) need careful observation or are not possible. Certainly yellow/orange, smelly discharge from the skin can be found in several areas in the skin section. If it was right after she was shorn, you may want to look at "injuries slow to heal" in generalities if there was a possibility of scraping with the shears.

Management may help - shearing that one area and using calendula (or not shearing and using a liquid calendula preparation dripped into the area).

Dr. Christina

 

[merrynb]

Thanks for that Dr Christina, noted (hi there/hello/good morning all fine : )

There was no damage to the skin from shearing by the way. The triggering factor (to my perception) was repeated exposure to rain in the period after shearing. Longer wool usually keeps the skin dry even when conditions are wet (I live in a high rainfall area).

Rubrics I found for Popcorn (sheep) were:

back; skin; out-breaks on skin; itching;

back; skin; out-breaks on skin; exudate

back; skin; itching; better scratching

I haven't looked for smelly paw rubics yet. I think you are suggesting that it would be ok to use foot rubics even though they are her front paws?

Something I'm finding challenging is describing smells.  I don't know how to describe the smell of her paws, except maybe sweetish, fruity. No very accurate though

thanks for your response : )

from Merryn

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hi Merryn-

1. Smelly feet and increased nailbed ceruminous (waxy/sweaty) discharge in cats is one of the signs of "latent psora" in the cat. Psora is Hahnemann's terminology for the internal energetic imbalance that effects most living beings. You can read much more about it in his "Chronic Diseaes: Their Peculiar Nature and Their Homoeopathic Cure".

The sensitivity of psora both helps maintain health as well as predispose to other dis-eases. Depending on lifestyle, hygiene, etc. However, it can then progress to active psoric manifestation and overt dis-ease.

Similar to what happens with fleece rot. Some of the sheep may not get this condition despite the rain. Because their susceptibility (sensitivity) to getting it is lower based on their individuality and internal balance.

So you're on the right track with looking for a curative remedy for your kitty.

I agree 100% with Dr. Christina about rubric accuracy, but people don't typically have smelly hands. Therefore, this might be a useful rubric to add into your analysis:

EXTREMITIES - ODOR OF FEET OFFENSIVE, WITHOUT PERSPIRATION: (12) bar-c. fl-ac. Graph. Kali-c. Lyc. Nit-ac. phos. sep. Sil. sulph. thuj. zinc.

However, her smelly paws are probably only one of multiple symptoms that you can use. And this symptom probably does not fully reflect her individuality and therefore may not be very useful. It will however be a good confirmatory. Meaning that improvement of the symptom can help confirm your remedy choice. Even if you don't use the rubric in your analysis.

The bottom line is that the symptom is not a problem per se. Certainly not in the current conventional veterinary world.

Continue with her <em>varied</em> fresh food diet, great lifestyle and closely evaluate any homeopathic medicine you give her. Deep-seated latent psoric symptoms, like the odor, can be slow to change. Therefore just give one dose then wait at lease 2-3 weeks to re-evaluate.

A similar approach applies both to laminitis and fleece rot. Diet and general hygiene are very important for both active psoric conditions.

I'll check with Dr. Beal to see if she has any management tips.

Dr. Jeff

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[dr_ sue beal]

Hey guys,

Jeff asked me to stop in and see if I could add to this conversation.

Remember the usefulness of the perspiration rubrics when we are trying to repertorize smells in animals. Yep, I know they don't perspire in the same way as do humans, but those rubrics can be really helpful.

It's possible that this cat simply has smelly feet in the absence of any infectious process. That's actually pretty common - and one of the "smelly feet" remedies is also a remedy often used for reactions to vaccinations. I'll let you explore the rubrics - I don't want to bias you and I don't have enough information about the individual to make any intelligent comments !

Re the laminitis in the sheep:

Is this true laminitis ? Or is it foot rot ?
Yep, I know I'm talking a combination of diagnostic labels and functional pathology but.... the way we look at these two situations really differs.

I typically see laminitis - an inflammation of the laminae (the interdigitations that hold the hard horny hoof wall to the sensitive, living structure of the underlying foot)  - in a couple of situations in sheep. It's common in sheep who are being fitted for sale or show and who are on a high concentrate diet. I've also seen it in animals who are grazing fresh green grass at the change of season or after a rain (fall flush as well as spring seasons). It can also happen in response to other things like retained placenta and other systemic diseases.

The "cure" involves identifying and removing any predisposing factors - and also treating the individuals or groups.

It's also really common for sheep to have foot rot. That's a situation in which there is "rot" of the foot structures, most commonly in the white line and sole areas, though it can extended to other places. The white line leads to the laminae.... it's the place on the bottom of the foot where you can almost see where they "join", where the horny hoof joins / meets the underlying tender parts (and also where the sole meets, too). Some folks feel this is an infectious process - that's what all the conventional references will tell you. That's not been my clinical experience, though..... nor that of many of my colleagues.

Foot rot is commonly worse areas where the ground is damp / wet, though I often see it in dry pastured / lotted sheep - and is typically exacerbated by imbalances in mineral nutrition - most commonly (but not exclusively) deficiencies in copper, zinc, selenium and / or sulphur. It can be tough to treat these animals if that underlying deficiency is not addressed. (Remember the conversations about treating errors in feeding and management like they are chronic disease / acute exacerbations of chronic disease - and how we can get tricked if we don't have the larger view ?)

My bias for dealing with the mineral nutrition is to offer the minerals individually - apart from the salt or from any other taste enhancers or limiters - and let the sheep select what they need in order to balance.

Ever what the diagnostic label / pathological process, you also have to consider whether this is an individual animal thing or whether it's a flock thing. If the former, then it makes more sense to look at individual vitality and tendency to disease. If the latter, often it's a management influenced thing. That doesn't mean don't treat - but it is useful when we look at the whole farm solution.

Rubrics that are helpful include those in the nails rurbics / subrubrics. Also rubrics that might describe causation and the process that's causing the symptoms. For example, the repertorization of laminitis is typically different than the repertorization of foot rot.  Does that make sense ?

If you can provide some more information, I'm happy to help you work through this.

Re the sheep with the post shearing woes:

Sometimes we see orange / yellow stuff on the fleece because the lanolin is high fat. This is aside from the rest of the story... but I wanted to let you know that. I see it a lot. Also in the ears - like lovely thick cerum that looks like yellow / orange "grease". This is not necessarily pathology in ruminants and hogs -  whereas it is in cats and dogs. The higher the butterfat, the more lovely the cerum ! You'll see it also on the tail hairs in the brush of the tail. Flip the tail "up" so the tip is pointing to the sky and then flip the longer brush hairs down so you can see "naked" hide. That's where you will find the flakey parts.

The flies come because the area is wet, usually. So the game is how to keep it dry - and how to dissuade the flies from coming and laying eggs.

Sometimes it's possible to wash and dry the areas - but I never found that all that practical with my ewes or with "real" sheep in other than show type situations. I do try and wash the most of the crud off..... and then dry it as best as circumstances allow.

Certainly you can use topical things to dry and dissuade.... corn starch can work decently, but food grade DE or field lime (*not* hot lime or hydrated lime or white lime) can work, too. The advantage of the latter is that it dessicates the fly eggs and reduces the chances of maggots in the area. Don't be afraid to use it liberally.

Depending on what the area looks like you can also treat topically with something like calendula tincture in water - though I rarely do that with these sorts of situations.

As far as rubrics are concerned - remember causation here. Worse after a haircut, cutting hair aggravates. There are rubrics and subrubrics that describe that situation and they can be really useful - regardless of what comes next after the haircut (headache, seizure, lameness, earache, eruption)...... Ideally - but not always - that which comes next is described in the materia medica of the remedy.

Check and make sure that the exudate is not usual for this sheep or the group of sheep. If she's got it other places (see above) then the character of the exudate is not going to be that helpful in determining a remedy. If she's a pale lanolin sheep, then the color of the discharge might be more helpful in determining a remedy. It's also important to look at what's happening to the hide under the area on which the discharge sits. Is it excoriated (red, looks like diaper rash {yep, depends on the individual's diaper rash, I know !}) or is it plain hide ? That, too, will give you an idea of the remedies - and also pave the way to particular rubrics (that describe the excoriation of the discharge). Also look and see if other discharges this ewe has or has had might be excoriating (like tears, snot, urine, lochia after lambing....). Sometimes there is consistency over time with these sorts of symptoms.

You can treat this topically or internally or both. While it's often ideal not to confuse the response to an internal medicine with topical treatment, sometimes we are in positions where we need to do something to the exterior. If that's the case (for blocking flies, for example) I'll use the least medicated and least manipulative treatment possible. Sometimes that's simply lube in the area to block the flies. Sometimes DE or field lime as mentioned above. Sometimes calendula tincture mixed with water and daubed on the area.
You may or may not want to clip that area close. I can't see it to offer an opinion - but sometimes getting all the raggedly bits of fleece off and having a more "surgical" clip can clean up the area and make it easier to manage. Having said that, I don't often do that in field sheep.... I clip them close, but not to the flat hide.

You are right, too, that if this ewe has had several episodes of fly strike when her flockmates have not, then it's suggestive that she's not as vital and robust as are her companions. It's likely that careful prescribing for this situation - on a whole sheep perspective - can do much to change that.

Imbalances in mineral nutrition will also add to these woes. We commonly see resilience to disease, reduction in parasite load and susceptibility and better fleece character and quality in animals who are well and appropriately mineralized.

In all these cases, it makes sense to look and see what else might have changed w/ the habits and behavior of the sheep. Are they still drinking the same amount ? more ? less ? Hanging w/ the crowd or off by themselves ? Inside or outside ? - sun or shade ? - provided they can make the choice and the humans are not making the choice for them ! Generally changes in these habits are more significant than their lifelong habit.... but I can make exceptions there, too.

I trust this has been of some help to you. Please feel free to get back with me with clarifications, further questions or if you need some more guidance.

Take care,

Susan Beal

[email protected]

814 952 6821

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[merrynb]

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by the generosity of all your replies, thank you so much : )

That gives me lots to go on.

Susan -

Footrot is fairly common in the area, but I'm pretty sure this is not what Popcorn has, as there is no bad smell.

I've heard that sheep with white hooves have more foot problems, and my experience is consistent with this. Popcorn has white hooves and my other two (and another former one) all had black hooves and no problems with them. So I wonder if it is a breed related trait that could be corrected with the right homeopathic remedy?

Re the exudate. Yes it could be natural, however none of my sheep had this before that one shearing that was followed by rain (I live in a high rainfall area by the way). My other sheep Aleppo had it as well for a while too, but it cleared up and hasn't returned. Yes there are ways to deter the flies, however I feel there is something deeper going on with Popcorn that I would like to address with homeopathy if possible. She also has a somewhat sad, forlorn disposition quite often, whereas my other two are content and happy. (Also sometimes grunts on the outbreath, and lies on her side with neck outstretched. Seems possibly uncomfortable with gas. And rapid, shallow breathing is characteristic)

Re washing the exudate off, yes that would definitely deter the flies, but I have been concerned about stripping the natural lanolin from her skin

Re skin under the exudate: it looks fine except for a bit of small white dandruff.

Another thing with Popcorn is she rubs quite a lot and is obviously itchy. Yet there are no ticks here, and she has few if any lice. My other sheep Aleppo has some lice, but does not appear to be bothered by them. Popcorn seems to be overly sensitive

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hi Merryn-

I'm just checking in on Popcorn and your other sheep and to comment about describing odors (and other symptoms).

In general, if there is no particular odor that jumps out at you like rotten eggs or smelly fish, it will be the Prominence (which is one of the <a href="https://www.holisticactions.com/6ps/">important Ps</a>) of the smell (or other symptom) that becomes most helpful.

For example, is it a putrid odor that you can smell across the room? Mildly offensive that you need to be with a foot to smell, or...?

Have you read Sulphur in the Materia Medica? If so, does it look like a potential <a href="https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/simillimum">similimum</a>?

Speaking of similars Merryn, do you know <a href="https://simillimum.co.nz">this company</a> (which also has books and kits).

Dr. Jeff

 

[merrynb]

Thank you Dr Jeff : )

As it happens, I went through my new homeopathy books (yay) this morning, to continue my search for remedies for Popcorn. The remedies that came up most consistently across her different symptoms were:

Arsenicum album, Calcarea, Mercurius, Phosphorus, Sulphur, Nit ac, Silica, Rhus t

Although the Materia Medica don't show Sulphur to be an amazing fit, it came up for almost every symptom, and I also came across this comment from Boericke: "Merc and Calc are frequently useful after Sulph, not before"

So I was thinking I could start with Sulphur and re-assess after that

The rubrics I was considering were:

Skin - affects in general

Skin - black spots

Skin -dry (she has a little bit of fine white dandruff in the areas with the discharge)

Skin - irritable

Skin - quivering, twitching (this happens with flystrike and is a telltale sign)

Skin - sensitive (she gets very agitated with flystrike and is difficult to treat compared to my neighbour's sheep)

Itching - general

Itching, must scratch

Itching, on becoming warm

Sadness, low spirits, mental depression

Ameliorations - scratching

Agg alone when (best I could find to match her enjoyment of meeting new people)

Agg - periodically (she is occasionally moody and irritable, and will fling her head to the side at me)

Respiration - shallow

Respiration - quick

Painful nails

Nails - base

Discharges - increased in general when moisture is increased

Discharges - causing itching

White discharges (pretty sure they are white but turn yellow/orange due to algae growth or similar)

Greasy, oil, fatty skin discharges

Obesity

I realise now I didn't look up any for irritability

Thoughts welcome and appreciated : )

from Merryn

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[Dr. Jeff]

Hey Merryn-

Yes, Sulphur to start ("open" in homeopathy speak) her case is a good choice.

Which repertory are you using?

Some of the rubrics you mentioned are very general and would have many, many remedies in many of the later repertories.

As you found, Sulphur will indeed be in many (even all) of the rubrics in a case.

It's a well-studied and therefore well-represented homeopathic medicine. In some cases, even over represented.

Regardless, it's a great way to help Popcorn's body. It will either help resolve her problems, or improve her body's ability to make a new clear symptom that will point you to a better simile.

Dr. Jeff

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[merrynb]

Thanks! I was mostly using Phatak's Concise Repertory and also the Therapeutic Pocket Book

Do you think 30C would be a reasonable place to start? She is 3 1/2 yrs old and in reasonable health overall

from Merryn

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Yes, 30c is great to "open" her case.

Ideally in water. Save the remedy liquid that you don't use.

How will you be administering it Merryn?

Dr. Jeff

 

[merrynb]

Hmm, haven't thought that far ahead yet. I guess I will try squirting some in her mouth with a syringe.

It won't be for a few weeks as I'll have to order the remedy and will be going away for a couple of weeks