Cat itching help - is it fleas or food allergy?

[MariaS]

Ummm, there IS no "wrong thing", IMO. All the advice you have gotten, and all the strategies you have employed, are valid and valuable to some extent. That said, I would back off of a lot, if only because they are complicating the picture.
There is no "ill health" here, only a little battle going on inside her, using "fleas" and "diet" and other things you've tried or thought as a way to point you in a healthy direction. And I know that sounds dumb.
You have a great and powerful little being here, engaged in a sparring match with natural partners - not opponents, but assistants in building true health. She's doing this to meet her own needs, and to show us something very important about how powerful the body is.
My take would be to simply observe. AND to look to true, simple, and incisive classical homeopathy. View this process as a challenge for you both - they come to teach, you know - and properly chosen remedies can help, even if they look unproductive at the time.
This is an opportunity, to uncloud your mind and learn by observation. She is FINE, but laden with knowledge, like a child with an armload of library books. She is healthy - not "but", but "and", with important things to teach you.

Deep breath, dear.

Thank you for your response. I really haven't been doing that much, only simple tweaks on more enrichment. And it was advised through this thread to see a holistic vet in-person.

I don’t expect anyone to be 100% correct. No one can be. But it's not unreasonable to be confused and concerned when Dr. Christina was completely adamant that it wasn’t fleas. I think we all want to be led in the right direction for our animals. My local homeopathic vet wanted to take a look at her again today to check the areas she was itching, and says she looks better. Her coat is silky and the redness is gone just a little over a month with the Bravecto. It is from fleas because she's all bare by her genital area and that's where fleas like to be. She's supposed to have hair there. So there was some wrong information being shared. Every animal is different, just like every person is different. It can only take one flea bite to have a reaction. And if they’re getting bit a lot, of course there will eventually be a reaction. Changing weather can cause areas to have more fleas than previous years, so it can't be dismissed.

Carmel never had flea allergies before stopping commercial flea treatment. Was trying to switch over to natural stuff. If it wasn’t fleas at all, why was Carmel mainly hanging out in the room that had a berber rug? Fleas don’t like berber.

There IS a reason for the itching and yes I understand it’s not dangerous, but I still wanted to get it worked out. And having clarity is helpful for anyone. Our animals are our family members, our children.

I want other people to feel seen who come across a similar issue. A balance of Eastern & Western medicine is important.

Would saying “you’re doing so good itching”, getting her purring, or enrichment get fleas to stop biting, or keep them away? As super sweet as those things are. Maybe I just don't get it. I think there has to be something effective or why else would we need flea preventatives at all? Being led in a direction where I’m NOT to think of it being fleas, didn't help me personally.

I’m not trying to be a pain. But my concern matters too. Maybe this just doesn’t work for me, and that’s okay. I’m glad I found a local vet that was able to figure out a solution where I'm seeing results. She does homeopathy and other holistic remedies, but doesn’t think there is a need for it in this case. Carmel is very healthy otherwise. Thank you though!

 

[MariaS]

Did you have a question Maria

The high eosinophils only confirm some sort of allergic response by her body.

This is due to an immune imbalance. Regardless of the external trigger, the underlying issue is the energetic and immune imbalance.

Have you already been using a rotation of probiotics as Julie discussed on the webinar this week?

I haven't tried probiotics yet. Quercetin I thought helped the immune system but I tried that in the beginning and it didn't help. I am curious to see if after flea season the itching goes away now that she's been treated for fleas. I still definitely won't suppress the itch, and my vet said she didn't need to take anything.

Can there still be a flea issue if you don't see any red from dipping a flea comb in water? I had seen a couple of active fleas on her before and put them in water, and nothing turned red. Not on the damp paper towel, nothing. Was told it's only a problem if we see red from specks.

But I've noticed the Bravecto has been helping now that it's been over a month, so seems to be helping the allergic response. I just don't understand why I was told it wasn't fleas when it's still important for me to figure out the cause, so it doesn't get worse. I would have acted on that sooner, so that's why this has been misleading for me.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Maybe I just don't get it.

You're in super good company Maria! Many "holistic" vets also don't get it.

See this thread from today for a bit more about the different paradigms.

Focal Seizures

Hello. I am posting again as I cannot find any information on focal seizure in all the threads, forums, resources, etc. My dog Peanut is about 5, weighs 12 pounds, is neutered, a chi mix (maybe dachund). he is happy go luck when he is not having focal seizures. He eats anything, but I feed...

www.holisticactions.com

For example, I would venture to guess that none of the vets you have seen knows about Hahnemann's clear description about dissimilar dis-ease in his Organon.

Briefly it just says that even just giving a drug is enough to either dull symptoms or create new ones.

In your case, that drug was Bravecto.

That's why pets (and people) with viral infections sometimes get better when they are given anti-biotics (which don't effect viruses).

The dissimilar dis-ease created by the drug overpowers the other symptoms.

Can there still be a flea issue if you don't see any red from dipping a flea comb in water?

Great question! Yes, it's very easy to miss the 1 or 2 fleas it takes to start a flea allergy (think about your itchiness sometimes from just 1 bug bite!).

I had seen a couple of active fleas on her before and put them in water, and nothing turned red.

The fleas don't turn red in the water. Flea dirt does (it's the flea poop from eating blood):

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lawndalevets.com

seems to be helping the allergic response

Fewer flea bites from Bravecto does indeed help reduce the allergic trigger (flea saliva).

Dr. Christina is probably the only holistic vet you've spoken with who truly using the homeopathic framework.

Her statement was related to the fact that fleas, pollens, foods, etc. are only triggers and do not cause an itchy, diarrhea or allergy.

It is the susceptibility to develop itch that needs to be treated in order to cure the allergy.

And as you've seen, it helps to treat the triggers at the same time.

BTW-In some climates (like in FL) almost all itches and skin problems are flea related! If I may ask, where do you live?

 

[Dr. Christina]

Maria, there are few "Right" answers, nor "right" experts. You are the best person to evaluate what is helping Carmel or not. Over the last 7 years we have had a webinar every Monday, as you know. Often one expert speaker recommends something another does not. At holistic Actions we emphasize that every animal is unique. Also, we see symptoms as clues to the underlying energetic imbalance. Some individuals are fairly balanced and one (or even many) flea bite will not trigger much more than an itch or nothing. From what you reported on the call, it does not seem like the pattern fit a flea allergy. Using the nematodes was still a great idea - decrease the number of fleas until Carmel is finally balanced. There is no single approach in holistic or conventional approaches that will definitely work.

Someone I spoke with recently said their cat had no fleas, yet had recurring skin problems. Each time treated with a soothing approach and an attempt to rebalance the energy field/vital force/prana while avoiding chemicals that can, in many individuals, weaken their field. they were on the verge of trying antibiotics and steroids, yet their cat was so happy and energetic that they decided to hang in there with topical treatments of aloe, oatmeal, calendula and others. They switched from Chinese medicine to homeopathy and after 6 months and several remedies, the cat's skin was fine, even when they saw a flea or two right after being outsie and she still had great BEAM. This does not always happen for every pet.

The more you read Lesson one of the 101 course, the more you may see the benefits in going for balance rather than merely preventing fleas chemically or naturally. And there you may get more clarity about if itching is a good thing. We are not saying it is good to itch. We are saying that merely trying to stop the itch is not the focus. Itching, and even scabs, are minor when she feels great and is such an adventurer.

The same thinking applies to food "allergies". We recommend feeding a variety of different fresh ingredients, or rotating brands of foods and proteins for several reasons. In the wild and over the last many centuries, dogs rarely ate the same thing day after day. And you may find a relationship between one food and an issue (until balanced then it will likely not happen), though with your careful observation, you did realize that it was not the egg.

You are making great observations about the itching, though mostly it is random:
itchier when she comes in late at night
when she’s excited she itches/licks herself more.
She’ll come in the room and itch, and I worry.

A few comments about that. Fleas would not trigger itchiness at night because the itchiness is caused by Carmel's reaction to the flea bites and is not instantaneous. These observations would be very useful if you were working with a homeopathic vet to balance the vital force. Finally, our worry can cause some pets to become anxious and then they itch. I notice I tend to scratch one of my fingers when people around me are angry, for instance.

We often have to try a number of different treatments, both soothing and deep healing, which is why we teach the HMDM method to help you not be stressed about what to try. You are doing this and maybe not being patient enough, or going for the deep cure.

• Dr. Andrew’s bioactive Quercetin for a month - didn’t do anything.
• Flea-Ex spray every morning (works on ticks too) That did help actually prevent ticks and soothe the skin Her scabs would go away using that consistently but itching continued. [that would have been fine to continue yet since the itching continued, there was still a deeper imbalance.]
• beneficial nematodes (HB+SC+SF) all over the lawn so don't have to worry about it as much.
• ACV spray since I ran out of the other topical spray - rub some on her.
• combing her often has helped with the dull coat & the clumps. She's all silky now.
• Psorinum 30c daily [Homeopathic medicines are not effective against fleas, though the social media may promote that. When a cat is very dirty looking, scruffy, super craves heat, seem to be a big flea or bug magnet, are very tired and lethargic, are better after eating and many other key individualizing characteristics - then it may deeply heal them so they no longer attract fleas. Not surprising that it did not help.]

In later posts you also mentioned:

• Praising her for itching. [I might not go that far, but certainly do not worry about it or tell her to stop itching. Distraction (catnip/silvervine/toys) can help.
• Rescue remedy - she liked it so you could have continued it until the deep healing happens.

We do suggest the deep healing that can be done working with a homeopathic, chinese medicine veterinarian, or chiropractor/osteopath, which you seem to have started, though I am concerned about that as most excellent holistic vets do not recommend Bravecto. However you saw some improvements, so she may have had a specific reason for that prescription. I would only worry that a deep treatment is not yet being done. It will be up to you to decide if that vet is prescribing to heal at the deep level, or merely treating the symptoms.

I hope this resolved some of the questions you had.
Dr. Christina

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Oh, and one other really important characteristic of true whole-istic vets is an understanding of the real nature of "infections" (which are primarily inflammations).

That's because the "germ" theory (which says that bacteria, viruses, yeast, primarily cause dis-ease) is only partially correct.

It is the inner balance (aka "terrain") that is most important. The better balanced the terrain, the fewer the allergies and "infections"):

A Way To Connect Modern Veterinary Medicine And Ancient Wisdom: An Introduction To Terrain Theory - Holistic Actions!

www.holisticactions.com

 

[MariaS]

For example, I would venture to guess that none of the vets you have seen knows about Hahnemann's clear description about dissimilar dis-ease in his Organon.

Well there's not much I can do about that, and not sure that's necessary. You wanted me to see someone locally that's holistic and there are not a lot of options. I don't really understand this holier than thou thing. Or being afraid of every single drug. It's too extreme for me. I was pleased with the help from the vet I've been going to.

Briefly it just says that even just giving a drug is enough to either dull symptoms or create new ones.

In your case, that drug was Bravecto.

I wouldn't say it's dulling symptoms or creating new ones. It's important that she's comfortable. Carmel has taken either Bravecto or Revolution for many, many years and never had a problem. A lot of people in the holistic animal community actually resort to taking them because the natural stuff just doesn't work as well. Even Rita Hogan understands sometimes that you need to go that route.

Great question! Yes, it's very easy to miss the 1 or 2 fleas it takes to start a flea allergy (think about your itchiness sometimes from just 1 bug bite!).

The fleas don't turn red in the water. Flea dirt does (it's the flea poop from eating blood):

Yes, I'm aware of that. I was talking about flea dirt too. Dr. Christina said it was definitely not fleas because I didn't see any red in the water from anything. Any black specks didn't turn red. I know what it looks like. Didn't see any because Carmel did a good job taking care of it.

Fewer flea bites from Bravecto does indeed help reduce the allergic trigger (flea saliva).

Yes, exactly. Which is why it needs to be part of the conversation. But dropping that completely, I don't agree with. You can't just continue on ignoring what the trigger is, hoping it stops.

Dr. Christina is probably the only holistic vet you've spoken with who truly using the homeopathic framework.

I find this odd. There are many great homeopathic vets and practitioners. My case had nothing to do with stress, so her having me use Rescue Remedy on her didn't do anything.

Her statement was related to the fact that fleas, pollens, foods, etc. are only triggers and do not cause an itchy, diarrhea or allergy.

It is the susceptibility to develop itch that needs to be treated in order to cure the allergy.

And as you've seen, it helps to treat the triggers at the same time.

This doesn't make sense to me. Every animal or person is different. Some people came in this lifetime being more prone to allergies than others. Same with animals. We can agree to disagree.

Yes, thanks to my vet, I was able to know what the trigger was. But unfortunately didn't get that through this site, which is what's bothering me. I have to be able to figure out the trigger to know which direction to go.

BTW-In some climates (like in FL) almost all itches and skin problems are flea related! If I may ask, where do you live?

It's not, I'm in Maine. You've asked me before, it's not an environmental allergy.

It's not worth it for me to continue this when it is really not resonating with me. I can only speak from my experience and what's currently working. Wish everyone the best on here!

 

[MariaS]

Maria, there are few "Right" answers, nor "right" experts. You are the best person to evaluate what is helping Carmel or not. Over the last 7 years we have had a webinar every Monday, as you know. Often one expert speaker recommends something another does not. At holistic Actions we emphasize that every animal is unique. Also, we see symptoms as clues to the underlying energetic imbalance. Some individuals are fairly balanced and one (or even many) flea bite will not trigger much more than an itch or nothing. From what you reported on the call, it does not seem like the pattern fit a flea allergy. Using the nematodes was still a great idea - decrease the number of fleas until Carmel is finally balanced. There is no single approach in holistic or conventional approaches that will definitely work.

Someone I spoke with recently said their cat had no fleas, yet had recurring skin problems. Each time treated with a soothing approach and an attempt to rebalance the energy field/vital force/prana while avoiding chemicals that can, in many individuals, weaken their field. they were on the verge of trying antibiotics and steroids, yet their cat was so happy and energetic that they decided to hang in there with topical treatments of aloe, oatmeal, calendula and others. They switched from Chinese medicine to homeopathy and after 6 months and several remedies, the cat's skin was fine, even when they saw a flea or two right after being outsie and she still had great BEAM. This does not always happen for every pet.

The more you read Lesson one of the 101 course, the more you may see the benefits in going for balance rather than merely preventing fleas chemically or naturally. And there you may get more clarity about if itching is a good thing. We are not saying it is good to itch. We are saying that merely trying to stop the itch is not the focus. Itching, and even scabs, are minor when she feels great and is such an adventurer.

The same thinking applies to food "allergies". We recommend feeding a variety of different fresh ingredients, or rotating brands of foods and proteins for several reasons. In the wild and over the last many centuries, dogs rarely ate the same thing day after day. And you may find a relationship between one food and an issue (until balanced then it will likely not happen), though with your careful observation, you did realize that it was not the egg.

You are making great observations about the itching, though mostly it is random:
itchier when she comes in late at night
when she’s excited she itches/licks herself more.
She’ll come in the room and itch, and I worry.

A few comments about that. Fleas would not trigger itchiness at night because the itchiness is caused by Carmel's reaction to the flea bites and is not instantaneous. These observations would be very useful if you were working with a homeopathic vet to balance the vital force. Finally, our worry can cause some pets to become anxious and then they itch. I notice I tend to scratch one of my fingers when people around me are angry, for instance.

We often have to try a number of different treatments, both soothing and deep healing, which is why we teach the HMDM method to help you not be stressed about what to try. You are doing this and maybe not being patient enough, or going for the deep cure.

• Dr. Andrew’s bioactive Quercetin for a month - didn’t do anything.
• Flea-Ex spray every morning (works on ticks too) That did help actually prevent ticks and soothe the skin Her scabs would go away using that consistently but itching continued. [that would have been fine to continue yet since the itching continued, there was still a deeper imbalance.]
• beneficial nematodes (HB+SC+SF) all over the lawn so don't have to worry about it as much.
• ACV spray since I ran out of the other topical spray - rub some on her.
• combing her often has helped with the dull coat & the clumps. She's all silky now.
• Psorinum 30c daily [Homeopathic medicines are not effective against fleas, though the social media may promote that. When a cat is very dirty looking, scruffy, super craves heat, seem to be a big flea or bug magnet, are very tired and lethargic, are better after eating and many other key individualizing characteristics - then it may deeply heal them so they no longer attract fleas. Not surprising that it did not help.]

In later posts you also mentioned:

• Praising her for itching. [I might not go that far, but certainly do not worry about it or tell her to stop itching. Distraction (catnip/silvervine/toys) can help.
• Rescue remedy - she liked it so you could have continued it until the deep healing happens.

We do suggest the deep healing that can be done working with a homeopathic, chinese medicine veterinarian, or chiropractor/osteopath, which you seem to have started, though I am concerned about that as most excellent holistic vets do not recommend Bravecto. However you saw some improvements, so she may have had a specific reason for that prescription. I would only worry that a deep treatment is not yet being done. It will be up to you to decide if that vet is prescribing to heal at the deep level, or merely treating the symptoms.

I hope this resolved some of the questions you had.
Dr. Christina

Thank you for this. I appreciate your understanding that I have to be the one to evaluate what is best, and taking the time to explain some things. It's good to know not to be praising her for itching. I was doing that and it did feel a bit odd, especially since it got clearer that it's fleas. So being told to do that just added to the confusion. Not sure what to say about my vet - that was the only local vet that I found through the holistic vet finder here on the site. And she didn't recommend homeopathy for this (she is a certified homeopath). You stated that we only use homeopathic remedies for acute cases, and that it's not to be used for fleas. She is integrative but also holistic. We are seeing how it goes as flea season winds down. I think that makes sense.

Also, it's not a coincidence that a squirrel and a chipmunk on two separate occasions appeared to me itching a lot in the yard. I was meant to see that.

With Carmel's itching, it has been very random. So that's why my notes are random. She just itches regardless. Yes, it's many times of the day and night that she will itch. That was an earlier note, but fleas are often worse at night. And she would go out a lot and come in late. So that's why that was there. I have really been working on not being concerned at all when she itches. My feelings about it has improved and I just love on her, and pet her. She will pause and rub on me, but mainly itch either way though.

I've cut out everything from the beginning and only just BE with her. So not really trying another method. The only recent thing was a ripple rug. And now the Bravecto since it wasn't getting better. She was actually getting worse so I had to do something. Not good to be licking so much that she's getting hairballs. I wouldn't have kept using the Flea-Ex spray because you told me to drop the whole flea thing. I don't think a spray works well for cats anyways. Too hard to put on.

My focus is making sure she's as healthy and comfortable as possible. So the itch is just a reminder something is up. I might not use Bravecto ongoing, but it's a good test.

The reason for the Bravecto is she was red in her genital area from scratching there a lot. And she's lost hair there, it's bare. It was also to identify whether or not it was fleas, so at least I would know. So I noticed the redness went away and she's not scratching excessively all day anymore. It's nice to see her come in from outside and be able to relax. And her appetite has been better, which high eosinophils can affect. So I don't know, maybe Carmel is happy she got looked at, and feels relief. That's what I sense from her. Her coat is even better too, and her skin overall. The silkiest I've felt from her in awhile. She's also been purring a lot more. And not doing that huff of frustration.

Often animals' hair can not grow back the same after something like this. So this is concerning to not get it handled, and being told misleading things.

I don't want to drag this on. I'm feeling like this is just not a good fit. I have to go with what feels right, and I'm not feeling comfortable with the info I've been given here or on the call. Wish you well!