Has anyone used the Nu.Q. test for cancer?

[AlysonR]

I'd love to have any early way to determine if I should urge a vet to look more closely for cancer, as I tend to detect a few signs (like loss of energy) early on -- too early for anything to show up on an ultrasound. Does anyone here have an opinion on the Nu.Q. test for cancer?

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Changes in BEAM and other early warning signs are a great way to find any issue early.

How to Use Clues From Your Animal Companions to Promote Optimal Health - Holistic Actions!

www.holisticactions.com

Optimize Your Pet's Quality Of Life Using BEAM

4 simple symptoms - behavior, energy, appetite, and mood - could help you track and increase your pet's health

www.holisticactions.com

Especially when combined with diagnostic screening (and especially trending) of the CBC, chemistry and urinalysis, when combined with exams from your vet.

I am not familiar offhand with the Nu.Q test you mentioned, but will research it. @Dr. Sara or @Dr. Jean might have experience with it.

Many of my clients and HA! members/students use the VDI screening:

Cancer Screening – VDI Laboratory, LLC

vdilab.com

BTW-You can save some $$ on diagnostic testing by using the HA! discount code whenever you order a VDI test.

 

[AlysonR]

What is the HA! discount code? My vet actually seems open to trying this!

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Fantastic that your vet is open to VDI testing!

All of the discount codes are found when you log in to the member area. @aruna can point you directly to the page if you have any problems finding it.

 

[AlysonR]

Hmm, found it, but when I click on the 'VDI' stuff under 'trusted brands' (bottom of the home page), the link is:

https://vdidirect.com/%20

and the page says "not found".

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Great that you found it! @aruna will look into the missing page. In the meantime though, try just ordering the test kit at the VDIdirect.com page and adding the coupon code.

VDI Specialty Test Kit

One Dried Serum Test Kit for submitting a Specialty test (acute care) to VDI. Blood draw from a veterinarian is required*. Comes with USPS tracking unless express service is selected. International customers are required to provide postage (sample must arrive within 3 weeks for testing). *The...

vdidirect.com

Please let us know if it works.

 

[aruna]

@AlysonR, just use the link that Dr. Jeff gave VDI Specialty Test Kit and use the coupon code that you found on trusted brands page.

 

[LilF]

What is the HA! discount code? My vet actually seems open to trying this!

Alyson, was just wondering if you pursued this test. It is the one that was recommended per VDI when she had her CRP and D level tested in May that should have been done for her. It says that it detects cancer 6 months ahead. There were some low energy clues with Gabby that were then dismissed by me because she was so energetic other times like on her walks. But she would walk slowly often from the fence in the yard back into the house. I noticed another sign that I have had with all my dogs, it is strange and maybe laughable and surely not scientific, but they start pooping elsewhere in the yard. Some pooped on the pavement during a walk, Gabby actually used to run to the back of the fence and do it. This summer she did it in the front of the fence, the play area. So with all your dogs, maybe you have similarly noticed changes like this. Again I noticed this in all my dogs within months of their death.... I guess maybe I am "too " observant. It struck me but I did not follow up on it. I have been laughed out of the vets office for far less observations in my dogs!!!

 

[AlysonR]

The short answer is: I'm still trying to find a new vet, so, no. I haven't pursued it, yet. The vet I had when I wrote the initial post prescribed Prozac for Kaya, but the dispensing tech wrote 40mg twice a day on the bottle (and I received no other paperwork). That dose is high, and the schedule is wrong. I called back with my concerns, and the vet tech kinda laughed off her error. I would have preferred that the vet and techs all had a discussion about the error and brainstormed on ways to avoid the error in the future. Prozac is fairly forgiving, but other drugs are not. The next vet I went to wasn't open to giving Kaya a titer test after a dose of (ack!) DHLPPC, even though, technically, since I don't have her puppy records, I don't actually know what Kaya's vaccine status is. That vet said Kaya had to get the second shot of DHLPPC before she'd consider doing a titer. Now I'm trying to get in with a vet who may not accept her because she's reactive to people -- barks and jumps. Since she's a nearly full-grown GSD, that's pretty intimidating. And, frankly, I don't want to go to two separate vets: one for Merlin and one for Kaya. I'll be working with Kaya starting this spring when the weather is warmer, and I know I'll make progress, but for now, I'm between vets. Fingers crossed Merlin doesn't develop anything in the meantime.

I hear you loud and clear about observations. As Dr. Chambreau's doggy journal elucidates, having a clear, written picture of what 'normal' looks like is very useful. Of course, one always forgets some aspect of 'normal' one should have written down. We do the best we can. I've not been observant enough to notice where my dogs poop in the yard. I do try to keep track of frequency and consistency on walks. And I know just what you mean about 'writing things off' due to.... And then, "normal" changes. When I was walking Merlin by himself, we were averaging 20 minute miles. Now that Kaya's along, it's 30 minute miles. Not because Kaya walks slowly, but because she gets distracted easily. Today she had to carry a large water bottle she'd found, so she had to figure out how to pick it up. Sometimes she wants to examine rocks, or carry sticks. If she drops 'the chosen one', she'll have to stop to pick it up. And then there's simply the dynamics of having two dogs sniffing at different things. In the end, having an objective test like the VDI screening seems like the best option.

 

[Dr. Christina]

Lil, How wonderful to share that poop observation. Yes, anytime there is a change of any sort in behavior it is important. For instance think about any reason for it. Did a big dog move in near the fence? Did you put something new in that area.

If not obvious, then think about why they have chosen a new place - urgency to go, too sore, general weakening of vital force.

Valuable info you gave us, Lil
Dr. Christina

 

[Dr. Jeff]

The next vet I went to wasn't open to giving Kaya a titer test after a dose of (ack!) DHLPPC, even though, technically, since I don't have her puppy records, I don't actually know what Kaya's vaccine status is. That vet said Kaya had to get the second shot of DHLPPC before she'd consider doing a t


some vets don't know about Dr. Dodd's work or info like this:

Canine Nomograph – What is it? | CAVIDS Titer Testing

Even young pups get titers.

 

[LilF]

Lil, How wonderful to share that poop observation. Yes, anytime there is a change of any sort in behavior it is important. For instance think about any reason for it. Did a big dog move in near the fence? Did you put something new in that area.

If not obvious, then think about why they have chosen a new place - urgency to go, too sore, general weakening of vital force.

Valuable info you gave us, Lil
Dr. Christina

 

[LilF]

Dr. Christina, No, it is just a pattern I noticed over about 5 dogs. People laugh when I tell them this. When Gabby started doing it this summer I blew it off because she was so healthy. Usually the dogs who changed their poop location were clearly having health problems. Some went on the pavement during the walk, maybe an urgency problem Gabby was always running around and playful and so normal. Her stool was normal so she had time to go to the back of the fence. No changes in anything and no new dogs. Gabby was very confident and didn't scare easily. (she thought she wanted to chase horses at the park even though I told her she was crazy as they would kick her in the head and kill her The fence is huge, covers the entire front yard (much to the dismay of neighbors but my dogs come first!) So no dogs coming up to the fence. Some of the dogs in the past were in fact weaker or had cognitive issues but not Gabby, she was "Shar Pei smart" and energetic. My other dog JJ with the cognitive problems, even he still goes in the same place so guess he will be around for a while. I seem to recognize patterns. It's just hard to convince the vets that they should look for something because the dog is now pooping at the wrong end of the fence. My old vet "understood" me though and wasn't put off by my personality. Because I am obsessed with the dogs records of everything he would say I "studied them" better than he did. He retired sadly---he found JJ's splenic tumor by touch and he had it removed. Gabby wasn't so lucky since he retired. Sorry, got a bit off topic!!

 

[LilF]

The short answer is: I'm still trying to find a new vet, so, no. I haven't pursued it, yet. The vet I had when I wrote the initial post prescribed Prozac for Kaya, but the dispensing tech wrote 40mg twice a day on the bottle (and I received no other paperwork). That dose is high, and the schedule is wrong. I called back with my concerns, and the vet tech kinda laughed off her error. I would have preferred that the vet and techs all had a discussion about the error and brainstormed on ways to avoid the error in the future. Prozac is fairly forgiving, but other drugs are not. The next vet I went to wasn't open to giving Kaya a titer test after a dose of (ack!) DHLPPC, even though, technically, since I don't have her puppy records, I don't actually know what Kaya's vaccine status is. That vet said Kaya had to get the second shot of DHLPPC before she'd consider doing a titer. Now I'm trying to get in with a vet who may not accept her because she's reactive to people -- barks and jumps. Since she's a nearly full-grown GSD, that's pretty intimidating. And, frankly, I don't want to go to two separate vets: one for Merlin and one for Kaya. I'll be working with Kaya starting this spring when the weather is warmer, and I know I'll make progress, but for now, I'm between vets. Fingers crossed Merlin doesn't develop anything in the meantime.

I hear you loud and clear about observations. As Dr. Chambreau's doggy journal elucidates, having a clear, written picture of what 'normal' looks like is very useful. Of course, one always forgets some aspect of 'normal' one should have written down. We do the best we can. I've not been observant enough to notice where my dogs poop in the yard. I do try to keep track of frequency and consistency on walks. And I know just what you mean about 'writing things off' due to.... And then, "normal" changes. When I was walking Merlin by himself, we were averaging 20 minute miles. Now that Kaya's along, it's 30 minute miles. Not because Kaya walks slowly, but because she gets distracted easily. Today she had to carry a large water bottle she'd found, so she had to figure out how to pick it up. Sometimes she wants to examine rocks, or carry sticks. If she drops 'the chosen one', she'll have to stop to pick it up. And then there's simply the dynamics of having two dogs sniffing at different things. In the end, having an objective test like the VDI screening seems like the best option.

 

[LilF]

@AlysonR Yikes... I would not have been happy with the medication error either. You're right there should be checks and balances especially dispensing medication. I found an error with antibiotic dosage a few years ago. I always keep one pill of the old prescription and that is how I caught it. The vet tech filled it. I worry more about injections that I cannot verify for drug or dose accuracy. I even grill my vet on the drugs for surgery! When Gabby had her thyroid tumor removed I told the surgeon I did not want Rimadyl but preferred Metacam. I told him the side effect of Rimadyl is Death and he seemed to get perturbed with me and he said he has had more problems with Metacam (which I find hard to believe) Anyway, I never gave Gabby any and gave her traumeel instead and she was fine. Don't settle or let yourself be muted when it comes to your dogs. The vet I had that retired did not push vaxes. He would ask but then drop it when I said "not today" . Or I would say I want a titer (he said the law doesn't accept those) Either way, get my point , if you get a vet that pushes I would find a vet who will let it go like mine did. My vet was so nice, he would send blood to Dr. Dodds for chemistry and titers. He would always want to know what Dr. Dodds thinks.... I feel your frustration walking two dog who are not in lock step! They do their own thing. Dr. Karen Becker writes about how important it is for dogs to sniff to their hearts content for the brain stimulation. She calls it a sniffari. If your dog Kaya is "problem solving and clearly "thinking" on her own it is really doing her a world of good and probably helps her sleep... mental stimulation is more tiring than physical...My dogs used to stop and mark everything.... Dr. Becker talks about taking dogs for different kinds of walks but she clearly emphasizes the importance of sniffing. It stimulates the brain and helps their cognition. People used to tell me to take my dogs separately and that was more enjoyable OR I would find a friend to come along to hold one dog. Taking two dogs wanting to do different things, or walking speed means one is getting pulled waiting for the other. I feel Gabby got the short end of the stick waiting for JJ who has mobility problems
I went to the VDI site and wished I had pursued the cancer test. We have to keep in mind as I clearly saw with Gabby, they hide disease, hardwired into their species for survival in the pack until they can no longer hide it and then it looks like it happened over night. Here is the link I was reading:
Cancer Diagnostics – VDI Laboratory, LLC BTW I know one other dog named Merlin....what a coincidence because it is such a cute and uncommon name... Keep us posted. BTW I always ask people who their vets are and get some idea of other possibilities if I ever need one. I hear good and bad stories so I make a mental note for the future. A new vet started at a clinic I was established at. The clinic said the new vet had 25 years experience. I did not go to that vet but was curious so I did some investigating and found that 18 of those years was in research (not clinical practice) and teaching. How misleading.... I did mention it to the clinic and think they tried to back peddle some... So the takeaway is when you are looking for a vet, dig below the surface....your dogs deserve the best.

 

[LilF]

The short answer is: I'm still trying to find a new vet, so, no. I haven't pursued it, yet. The vet I had when I wrote the initial post prescribed Prozac for Kaya, but the dispensing tech wrote 40mg twice a day on the bottle (and I received no other paperwork). That dose is high, and the schedule is wrong. I called back with my concerns, and the vet tech kinda laughed off her error. I would have preferred that the vet and techs all had a discussion about the error and brainstormed on ways to avoid the error in the future. Prozac is fairly forgiving, but other drugs are not. The next vet I went to wasn't open to giving Kaya a titer test after a dose of (ack!) DHLPPC, even though, technically, since I don't have her puppy records, I don't actually know what Kaya's vaccine status is. That vet said Kaya had to get the second shot of DHLPPC before she'd consider doing a titer. Now I'm trying to get in with a vet who may not accept her because she's reactive to people -- barks and jumps. Since she's a nearly full-grown GSD, that's pretty intimidating. And, frankly, I don't want to go to two separate vets: one for Merlin and one for Kaya. I'll be working with Kaya starting this spring when the weather is warmer, and I know I'll make progress, but for now, I'm between vets. Fingers crossed Merlin doesn't develop anything in the meantime.

I hear you loud and clear about observations. As Dr. Chambreau's doggy journal elucidates, having a clear, written picture of what 'normal' looks like is very useful. Of course, one always forgets some aspect of 'normal' one should have written down. We do the best we can. I've not been observant enough to notice where my dogs poop in the yard. I do try to keep track of frequency and consistency on walks. And I know just what you mean about 'writing things off' due to.... And then, "normal" changes. When I was walking Merlin by himself, we were averaging 20 minute miles. Now that Kaya's along, it's 30 minute miles. Not because Kaya walks slowly, but because she gets distracted easily. Today she had to carry a large water bottle she'd found, so she had to figure out how to pick it up. Sometimes she wants to examine rocks, or carry sticks. If she drops 'the chosen one', she'll have to stop to pick it up. And then there's simply the dynamics of having two dogs sniffing at different things. In the end, having an objective test like the VDI screening seems like the best option.

 

[LilF]

@AlysonR I was reading about decompensation and thought you might get something out of this too. Since you are trying to be proactive with the VDI cancer test. One other thing I noticed with dogs in the past who showed no signs of cancer is if one is smelling the other in a specific place. I had a dog who had what was thought a brain tumor and the other dog would always smell that area. I think the other resident dogs notice changes in smell. Also I notice changes in breath. When I take them for a ride in the car, I could always tell when Gabby had her mouth open as I could smell it waft to the front. It seems uremic breath smells different than just dirty teeth breath. You get the idea, what is normal "bad" breath for the dog and does it change? Her eis the article I thought was good at understanding why the dog seems to get sick overnight. I think the cancer test would be peace of mind or a blessing to intervene early.

Dog Cancer Decompensation - DogCancerBlog

People are often stunned to find out their dog has cancer. Why? Because cancer seems to hit out of the blue. I often hear "but he's been fine until the

www.dogcancerblog.com

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Thanks for sharing your great thoughts Lil.

Thanks as well for sharing Dr. Dressler's article. As more and more pet parents use BEAM for early dis-ease detection, I think "decompensation" from any degenerative dis-ease like cancer will become less common.

Early Warning Signs of internal imbalance and monitoring of subtle symptom clues should reduce our companion's risk of an end stage dis-ease seeming to come out of the blue.

BTW-Damian Dressler also formulated a cancer supplement that more and more vet oncologists are using (partially because of his and Dr. Ettinger's great, but conventional, book):

The Dog Cancer Survival Guide: Full Spectrum Treatments to Optimize Your Dog's Life Quality and Longevity: Demian Dressler, Susan Ettinger: 9780975263150: Amazon.com: Books

The Dog Cancer Survival Guide: Full Spectrum Treatments to Optimize Your Dog's Life Quality and Longevity [Demian Dressler, Susan Ettinger] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Dog Cancer Survival Guide: Full Spectrum Treatments to Optimize Your Dog's Life Quality and Longevity

www.amazon.com

Helpful info here for early cancer detection (to prevent decompensation):

How to Use Clues From Your Animal Companions to Promote Optimal Health - Holistic Actions!

www.holisticactions.com

Dr. Dressler's supplement:

Frequently Asked Questions - APOCAPS | Apoptogen Formula for Dogs

Here are frequently asked questions and topics we've encountered over the years. For informational purposes only. Consult with your veterinarian before using any product.

apocaps.com

 

[LilF]

Thanks for sharing your great thoughts Lil.

Thanks as well for sharing Dr. Dressler's article. As more and more pet parents use BEAM for early dis-ease detection, I think "decompensation" from any degenerative dis-ease like cancer will become less common.

Early Warning Signs of internal imbalance and monitoring of subtle symptom clues should reduce our companion's risk of an end stage dis-ease seeming to come out of the blue.

BTW-Damian Dressler also formulated a cancer supplement that more and more vet oncologists are using (partially because of his and Dr. Ettinger's great, but conventional, book):

The Dog Cancer Survival Guide: Full Spectrum Treatments to Optimize Your Dog's Life Quality and Longevity: Demian Dressler, Susan Ettinger: 9780975263150: Amazon.com: Books

The Dog Cancer Survival Guide: Full Spectrum Treatments to Optimize Your Dog's Life Quality and Longevity [Demian Dressler, Susan Ettinger] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Dog Cancer Survival Guide: Full Spectrum Treatments to Optimize Your Dog's Life Quality and Longevity

www.amazon.com

Helpful info here for early cancer detection (to prevent decompensation):

How to Use Clues From Your Animal Companions to Promote Optimal Health - Holistic Actions!

www.holisticactions.com

Dr. Dressler's supplement:

Frequently Asked Questions - APOCAPS | Apoptogen Formula for Dogs

Here are frequently asked questions and topics we've encountered over the years. For informational purposes only. Consult with your veterinarian before using any product.

apocaps.com

 

[LilF]

Yes, Dr. Jeff, I was noticing also as I read the article that the indicators were another way of expressing BEAM. BEAM is a helpful way to break a list of symptoms or presentations down to" categories" easier to identify and pin down over a list.... Also important I would think is how many of the categories are affected and the duration. If a dog has only the A (appetite) affected versus all the others It makes me think also as a cautionary tale of how we need to not think and dismiss a subtle change as the dog getting older and slowing down. It may be true but we need to watch and know that even the most subtle change can be an indicator of brewing medical problem. People say it does no good to go back and "rehash" as I do with Gabby's journey...but it is important as far as recognizing what was missed or diminished as a change, even if it was manifest only occasionally. I used to use Gabby's bilious vomiting as an indicator of "something's up" It has proven to be reliable as I have recorded each time she did it. Most notably it increased when she developed a functional thyroid tumor in late 2019 and when she was diagnosed with Protein Losing Enteropathy in Jan 2021. I might also add that when Gabby had the functional thyroid tumor, I noticed her walking style changed and her desire to go way longer. She walked like a marching soldier during that time, a change from her gait up to then. Her functional thyroid tumor gave her excess thyroid so she seemed like she was burning energy all the time and never tiring. So valuable to make connections with BEAM. Before I knew of BEAM, I think I had an intuitive sense of it but now it is crystallized and easier to make it more concrete to more quickly act on it....