Has anyone used the Nu.Q. test for cancer?

[Dr. Jeff]

Wow Lil, thanks for sharing your fantastic post!

I think we should start a whole separate forum thread discussion just about QoL (quality of life), BEAM and your questions/observations.

So valuable to make connections with BEAM. Before I knew of BEAM, I think I had an intuitive sense of it but now it is crystallized and easier to make it more concrete to more quickly act on it....

That's awe-some to hear Lil!

BTW-we can discuss this separately (in another post) but many pet parents find it helpful to score BEAM.

IMHO, our pets' deserve BEAMs of 90-100 (out of 100)!

Optimize Your Pet's Quality Of Life Using BEAM

4 simple symptoms - behavior, energy, appetite, and mood - could help you track and increase your pet's health

www.holisticactions.com

 

[ZannahM]

I'd love to have any early way to determine if I should urge a vet to look more closely for cancer, as I tend to detect a few signs (like loss of energy) early on -- too early for anything to show up on an ultrasound. Does anyone here have an opinion on the Nu.Q. test for cancer?

I asked my vet about using it just for prevention and she

 

[ZannahM]

I asked my vet about using it just for prevention and she thought it unnecessary, saying it was most useful for specific breeds and in specific cases of mysterious ailments. When we move in a few months, I'll ask our new vet who'll be more integrative, though this one isn't bad.

 

[AlysonR]

I finally got the VDI CRA (cancer risk assessment) test back for Merlin. TK1 was elevated slightly (5.2), but CRP was optimal (<0.5). They called it 'equivocal' and made some suggestions as to what might be going on. One thought was cancer without inflammation. My question here is: are there cancers that have no inflammation associated with them (as opposed to having no inflammation due to treatment)? The second thought was vector-borne diseases. When I first got Merlin, 3 years ago, he was diagnosed with both heartworm and Lyme. When I had him retested for heartworm after the treatment, both heartworm and Lyme came back negative. Since then, my 4Dx testing has been a bit spotty, so I don't know what his current Lyme status is. Is it possible that could be the reason for the slightly elevated TK1? Are there other things I should look into? Has anyone else had experience with this? Dr. Doyle was somewhat mystified as to what to do next, though the VDI people apparently welcome questions.

 

[LilF]

@AlysonR So glad to hear you got this testing for Merlin (love his name). What breed is he? Is Dr. Doyle your holistic vet? Will VDI answer your questions or will they only speak to your vet? I will just tell you that in December of 2020 Gabby had the VDI test for CRP with moderate inflammation. They list possible sources of common inflammatory diseases that correspond to the level of inflammation (Gabby had Protein Losing Enteropathy at this time which was fourth on the list of possibilities, low albumin, so we just addressed that) . Etiology was never determined (in hindsight was it cancer? I did get her albumine to normal in about 8 months) However the VDI report lists possible sources" in decreasing probability" as Cancer, IBD, Fungal, PLE, Aseptic Respiratory, Kidney disease (non cancer) IMPA, Parasites. (Until now I never reviewed this report in this context but seems neither did that vet I was seeing who would miss a brick thrown at her head after the fact, sadly for Gabby) Next to each source is a potential action. My report said to do the TK1Cancer panel imaging etc... My vet never even looked at this. Fast Forward to May of 2021 when Gabby was retested. Her CRP level was Optimal now. The message on the May 2021 report was confusing to me as well since her inflammation (CRP was now ok). There was a box that said possible source, again, Cancer w/o inflammation was listed as number one, Addisons disease, and liver disease (non cancer). Again my vet did nothing and never brought it to my attention. I read that the VDI can pick up cancer 6 months in advance which would correspond to Gabby's timeline of diagnosis after the May test. So on two of her testings, Cancer was listed in the possible sources box without any follow up. I wish the VDI people would explain this cancer without inflammation better (examples) and I would get a better understanding. Gabby had hemangiosarcoma (is that a cancer without inflammation?) and just read that Bartonella had been found in 80 percent in the dogs that had it. Not blood, but tissue sample. Gabby had a tick on her ( I always send the tick in for testing since it is easier than testing the dog and the test not picking it up) in October and I sent it in for testing--it had no Bartonella but I was advised by the lab doing the tick testing that fleas are a bigger vector than ticks (no wonder it is so rampant a disease). Tick diseases are hard to find on testing in people and I assume dogs. In some of my notes that I take, I have a note that says to "ask for CQ6 Test to distinguish Lyme exposure with infection. I am not sure if this is useful now after Merlin was "treated".. As we know, the treatment doesn't always get rid of it. I thought I read something in a Dr. Karen Becker article once on the Mercola site. I wish my vet would have followed up with Gabby that is unconscionable in hindsight to have ignored this. You can monitor for signs but sometimes as in my Gabby's case the signs were so subtle and explainable easily by other things ---lets not forget decompensation... I have been listening to Dr. Sue Ettinger on YouTube the past few nights and she did mention the Nu.Q test from Texas A&M. I would try and get a list of cancers without inflammation from VDI. I am wondering if Hemangio is one which is what Gabby ultimately had. I would ask VDI specifically about tick diseases. You might want to email Paul at Tickreport.com When I get a tick tested he is full of information. Their whole mission is education. He might shed some light on the tick part of your posting. Anyway, just follow your gut and do a thorough follow up. Will see if I can go through my notes over the years and come up with more on tick diseases. By the way, your post said you don't notice a lot of signs, but low energy... Dr. Sue mentions this as a subtle sign. Gabby used to walk slower from the fence to the house which I attributed to getting older. Merlin is 3, IMO, he shouldn't be having lower energy. I do not want to be an alarmist at all...but with my experience, Gabby hid what was going on for too long and leaked out little signs that made no sense at the time (even pooping in a different place) Get the Nu.Q test, Call VDI and make sure you are satisfied with the answers

 

[AlysonR]

Woof! Lots to say there, by I appreciate the references!! I will say, according to VDI, they list the possible explanations in order of expense to investigate, not likelihood. I'm still, definitely, going to talk to them. My thought, given that they say 'review medications', is that maybe in the absence of any medications, one would expect inflammation, but that medications could hide that. Just conjecture at the moment. In any event, Merlin (actually 5 at this point) is not on any medications, and he hasn't been since we completed the heartworm treatment. More on this when I know more. Thanks for all the info!

 

[Dr. Jeff]

My question here is: are there cancers that have no inflammation associated with them (as opposed to having no inflammation due to treatment)?

What a great question Alyson!

A high exposure to toxins, some genetic mutations and viruses may acute trigger a cancer without much (measurable) inflammation but these are pretty unusual (and probably don't apply to your pup).

Here's an older (but still applicable) research article excerpt:

It is now becoming clear that the tumour microenvironment, which is largely orchestrated by inflammatory cells, is an indispensable participant in the neoplastic process, fostering proliferation, survival and migration. In addition, tumour cells have co-opted some of the signalling molecules of the innate immune system, such as selectins, chemokines and their receptors for invasion, migration and metastasis. These insights are fostering new anti-inflammatory therapeutic approaches to cancer development.

The functional relationship between inflammation and cancer is not new. In 1863, Virchow hypothesized that the origin of cancer was at sites of chronic inflammation, in part based on his hypothesis that some classes of irritants, together with the tissue injury and ensuing inflammation they cause, enhance cell proliferation1. Although it is now clear that proliferation of cells alone does not cause cancer, sustained cell proliferation in an environment rich in inflammatory cells, growth factors, activated stroma, and DNA-damage-promoting agents, certainly potentiates and/or promotes neoplastic risk. During tissue injury associated with wounding, cell proliferation is enhanced while the tissue regenerates; proliferation and inflammation subside after the assaulting agent is removed or the repair completed. In contrast, proliferating cells that sustain DNA damage and/or mutagenic assault (for example, initiated cells) continue to proliferate in microenvironments rich in inflammatory cells and growth/survival factors that support their growth. In a sense, tumours act as wounds that fail to heal2.

Inflammation and cancer

Recent data have expanded the concept that inflammation is a critical component of tumour progression. Many cancers arise from sites of infection, chronic irritation and inflammation. It is now becoming clear that the tumour microenvironment, which is ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[AlysonR]

Interesting article, and something I've long suspected. Oddly, sometimes people and animals that are in poor health chronically actually don't develop cancer, perhaps because their bodies are unable to mount a regenerative response. At least, that's what I hypothesize.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Yes, that makes sense to me as well Alyson (about inflammation and cancer). I'm not aware of any research evidence tho. I think the clinical explanation for this lies in the homeopathic/energetic framework and not molecular/physiologic medicine.

 

[LilF]

Woof! Lots to say there, by I appreciate the references!! I will say, according to VDI, they list the possible explanations in order of expense to investigate, not likelihood. I'm still, definitely, going to talk to them. My thought, given that they say 'review medications', is that maybe in the absence of any medications, one would expect inflammation, but that medications could hide that. Just conjecture at the moment. In any event, Merlin (actually 5 at this point) is not on any medications, and he hasn't been since we completed the heartworm treatment. More on this when I know more. Thanks for all the info!