Diarrhea sudden onset

[ivegrgas]

1. Your pet's name, age, sex: Xia, 13yo, Female

2. Neutering status: Spayed

3. Breed: Chi mix

4. Approximate weight: 8lbs

5. What's their BEAM (behavior, energy, appetite, mood): BEAM has been good, even since the symptom first presented itself three days ago the BEAM was high, but today it is lower, hence why I am reaching out

6. Diet: varied, organic raw food 80% made of protein and 20% lightly cooked leafy greens and carbs high in fiber (no rice) supplemented with omega rich foods, fermented foods or probiotics, goat kefir, camel milk, antioxidants (turmeric golden paste).

7. Vaccination history / exposure to toxins, other medication: vaccinated in the first three years of her life, since then

8. Primary problem, when it began and if there was anything else happening around that time:

Four days ago Xia started having diarrhea that was very liquid and had a horrible smell and some mucus. She also threw up a few times (mostly bile). She is no longer throwing up, but she is still having diarrhea. Diarrhea both during the day and at night (although with lesser frequency). The need to have a bowl movement is very strong so she doesn’t always make it to the pee-pad. I try to wipe her behind after she poops and she seems to be receptive to it. That leads me to think that her anus is itching after the bowl movement.

The frequency and the volume of the diarrhea has significantly reduced. The first day we skipped dinner (she eats twice a day) even though she was interested in food. Second day I gave her home made bone broth because I wanted to make sure she is staying hydrated. Third day I have given her a little bit of her raw food and today she hasn’t had as much diarrhea but her BEAM is lower.

My main concern is that her BEAM is lower and I am wondering if the bad smell is indicative of a bacterial infection. I am wondering if I should have a local vet examine her and do a stool culture. But at the same time I do not wish to subject her to additional stress that a vet visit entails.

Today I plan on introducing food. In the homemade bone broth I cooked some ground beef and I added a little bit of white rice. I am adding some psyllium husk and herbs such as slippery elm well as the probiotic/prebiotic (The Woolf from Roots).

Should I give her a dose of a homeopathic remedy? My first thought was to reach for Arsenicum but her current constitutional remedy is Lycopodium. I think ARS better describes her situation, and she was responsive to it in the past.


9. Is the condition better or worse from exercise, heat, cold, time of day, certain foods, emotional upset, being touched, excitement, etc?
I did not notice any changes. She likes to be petted and is returning the affection.

10. Has any diagnostic work been done? Diagnosis if available (you can attach your diagnostic tests to the post if you have them.)
No diagnostic work has been done.

11. Current and previous treatment.
Fasting followed by reduced feeding

12. Other health concerns.
None

13. Tag a doctor: @Dr. Jeff

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hey Ive!

I'm sorry to hear about Xia's diarrhea.

I am wondering if the bad smell is indicative of a bacterial infection

Not typically.

do a stool culture.

If it would make you feel better.

I think ARS better describes her situation, and she was responsive to it in the past.

I agree.

And try to double her time sniffing around, or even just hanging out, in nature.

 

[NancyK]

I was wondering if the homemade diet includes some form of calcium such as raw meaty bones (ground or whole), bone meal, seaweed calcium or egg shells. I feed a diet of meat, bone and organs. If I do not feed enough bone, the stools will be loose. The other thing I was wondering is if she is not digesting her food properly. As they get older, I understand that sometimes they do not make enough enzymes. I saw an article today by Katie Woodley talking about adding an enzyme supplement like Standard Process Zypan to help better digest the food. I feed mine some raw pancreas occasionally to try and support their enzymes.

Nancy

 

[ivegrgas]

Hi Nancy, when I say 80% protein, that includes the whole animal (muscle meat, organs, fur, and bone). I am lucky to be able to get meat grinds that contain all of the animal parts. I will add eggshell calcium if I prepare a meal using only muscle meat (and I do that sometimes if I come across an exotic protein to add variety to the diet). I wish I could do meals containing only raw bones, such as chicken necks or spear ribs, but my little one is a gulper, and out of fear of her choking, I am not doing bones by themselves. I do try to give her a marrow bone. But your point is very well taken; occasionally, I notice that she has not completely digested all the crushed bones, and then I add Rx Zyme from Rx Vitamins. I came to trust that many of the issues we see and experience ourselves start in the gut, so I have been very focused on trying to keep her gut strong. I also felt that diarrhea alone did not warrant immediate intervention because I thought it was part of the natural process. I had hoped it would resolve itself in a couple of days. I got concerned when her BEAM got worse.

So today, I gave her a dose of Arsenicum 30C 10/q-tip, and we spent the afternoon in the park. Although she had some cooked food today and pork jerky treats, she has not had a bowel movement yet. I am keeping my fingers crossed that we have turned the corner, although I would expect a few more episodes of loose stools.

 

[NancyK]

Hi Nancy, when I say 80% protein, that includes the whole animal (muscle meat, organs, fur, and bone). I am lucky to be able to get meat grinds that contain all of the animal parts. I will add eggshell calcium if I prepare a meal using only muscle meat (and I do that sometimes if I come across an exotic protein to add variety to the diet). I wish I could do meals containing only raw bones, such as chicken necks or spear ribs, but my little one is a gulper, and out of fear of her choking, I am not doing bones by themselves. I do try to give her a marrow bone. But your point is very well taken; occasionally, I notice that she has not completely digested all the crushed bones, and then I add Rx Zyme from Rx Vitamins. I came to trust that many of the issues we see and experience ourselves start in the gut, so I have been very focused on trying to keep her gut strong. I also felt that diarrhea alone did not warrant immediate intervention because I thought it was part of the natural process. I had hoped it would resolve itself in a couple of days. I got concerned when her BEAM got worse.

So today, I gave her a dose of Arsenicum 30C 10/q-tip, and we spent the afternoon in the park. Although she had some cooked food today and pork jerky treats, she has not had a bowel movement yet. I am keeping my fingers crossed that we have turned the corner, although I would expect a few more episodes of loose stools.

It sounds like she is eating a good diet. I just mentioned the calcium because I know some homemade feeders leave that out. I make my own food because I like having control over the ingredients. We also raise our own beef so I want to use that. I have found that my dogs need more than 10 percent bone in their diet to have firm stools. The amount of fat and organ meats also plays a big role. My dogs are 16 and almost 16. I noticed a few months ago that they were not digesting bone as well so I stopped feeding whole raw meaty bones and now chop them up finely with a Joyce Chen poultry shears. I typically use necks or wings, sometimes backs. Chopping them up helped significantly. I also noticed I had to remove some of the skin on the wings because too much poultry fat appears to cause loose stools. I also have to watch that I do not feed too many organs, especially beef liver. Anyway, I am always playing around with their diet and adjusting based on what I see. I do think as they have reached 16, they needed some adjustments. Historically, they have both had great digestive systems. The Rx Zyme product looks good. Thanks for sharing that.

Good luck with your little one. Hopefully, she is back to normal soon.

 

[Dr. Christina]

For me, it is ok to have 1 or 2 days in an acute as individuals are recovering as there may be a need for recuperation. Do agree no need to go to vet at this point.
Diarrhea can also be a good cleansing.

Ive, Great example of good choices - fasting, then broths.

Flower essences could be useful but more likely to have on hand if this was a repeated problem.


Nancy, so great that you raise and make your own food. Your animals are certainly blessed. And both of you pay attention to needs and change the diet accordingly. Kudos.

Dr. christina

 

[ivegrgas]

Flower essences could be useful but more likely to have on hand if this was a repeated problem.

Do you recommend any specific flower essence for this situation? I have Rescue Remedy, and, during the worst day last week, I would put the essence on my hands before petting her.

Thanks!

 

[ivegrgas]

It sounds like she is eating a good diet. I just mentioned the calcium because I know some homemade feeders leave that out. I make my own food because I like having control over the ingredients. We also raise our own beef so I want to use that. I have found that my dogs need more than 10 percent bone in their diet to have firm stools. The amount of fat and organ meats also plays a big role. My dogs are 16 and almost 16. I noticed a few months ago that they were not digesting bone as well so I stopped feeding whole raw meaty bones and now chop them up finely with a Joyce Chen poultry shears. I typically use necks or wings, sometimes backs. Chopping them up helped significantly. I also noticed I had to remove some of the skin on the wings because too much poultry fat appears to cause loose stools. I also have to watch that I do not feed too many organs, especially beef liver. Anyway, I am always playing around with their diet and adjusting based on what I see. I do think as they have reached 16, they needed some adjustments. Historically, they have both had great digestive systems. The Rx Zyme product looks good. Thanks for sharing that.

Good luck with your little one. Hopefully, she is back to normal soon.

I noticed that fat, regardless of the source, results in softer stools (even bone marrow).

Do you do anything for their teeth now that they no longer eat bones? That is why I wish I could feed them to my little one. Although she is doing pretty well for her age and breed, she has all of her teeth. Last year, she had a deep cleaning, and the vet was very surprised at how well her teeth are. The original estimate for the procedure included the removal of four teeth.

 

[NancyK]

I noticed that fat, regardless of the source, results in softer stools (even bone marrow).

Do you do anything for their teeth now that they no longer eat bones? That is why I wish I could feed them to my little one. Although she is doing pretty well for her age and breed, she has all of her teeth. Last year, she had a deep cleaning, and the vet was very surprised at how well her teeth are. The original estimate for the procedure included the removal of four teeth.

My dogs ate bones for years. They are 16 and almost 16. The yorkie still has all his teeth and they look good. The other dog has lost a few teeth in spite of bones and brushing. She has a slightly malformed bite and therefore chews mostly on one side. So unfortunately the side she cannot chew on tends to get some buildup. The gums of both of them look good and their breath is great and gums never bleed. I usually just brush their teeth using my finger and plain water, or I use one of the following products.

1. LUCAA dental spray. This is essentially an probiotic with mild cleaning agent. I do not like that it contains a preservative, however it actually seems effective and at this point I am using it because they are too old for anesthesia so trying to do whatever I can to avoid it. It actually seems effective at cleaning and keeping tartar at bay.

2. Oral Tooth Powder from Pet Health and Nutrition Center. This contains mostly beneficial oral probiotics, along with baking soda, salt and marshmallow root. It is slightly abrasive but still gentle. You can make a paste and just use your finger which I like.

I have some Teef and am thinking of trying that for tooth brushing but we had some loose stools when I used it before so backed off of it for awhile. They say the vitamin b6 can cause loose stools in some dogs. I was putting in there water previously but when I try it again I am going to use it for tooth brushing so they don't consume so much.

I typically just brush with my fingers because their mouths are very tiny and it is hard to get much in there, even gauze.

I also do not feed them any carbohydrates because those tend to feed bad bacteria in the mouth. I also avoid using anything antibacterial in the mouth as it will kill both good and bad bacteria making it easy for the bad to take over.

The teeth on small dogs can be a challenge, especially if dental structure is poor. However, I believe the diet and tooth brushing as best we can is very helpful. Good luck! Please let us know if you have other teeth cleaning ideas.

Nancy

 

[NancyK]

I just wanted to add. Even though I grind their raw meaty bones, I feed chunks of meat so they get some dental benefit.

Nancy

 

[ivegrgas]

I feed chunks of meat

I tried that once... I was cooking stake and I cut off a piece and gave it to my little one... she swallowed the hole thing and of course started choking... worst three minutes of my life. Now I prefer something like the photo attached... no bone is too big!

 

[ivegrgas]

My dogs ate bones for years. They are 16 and almost 16. The yorkie still has all his teeth and they look good. The other dog has lost a few teeth in spite of bones and brushing. She has a slightly malformed bite and therefore chews mostly on one side. So unfortunately the side she cannot chew on tends to get some buildup. The gums of both of them look good and their breath is great and gums never bleed. I usually just brush their teeth using my finger and plain water, or I use one of the following products.

1. LUCAA dental spray. This is essentially an probiotic with mild cleaning agent. I do not like that it contains a preservative, however it actually seems effective and at this point I am using it because they are too old for anesthesia so trying to do whatever I can to avoid it. It actually seems effective at cleaning and keeping tartar at bay.

2. Oral Tooth Powder from Pet Health and Nutrition Center. This contains mostly beneficial oral probiotics, along with baking soda, salt and marshmallow root. It is slightly abrasive but still gentle. You can make a paste and just use your finger which I like.

I have some Teef and am thinking of trying that for tooth brushing but we had some loose stools when I used it before so backed off of it for awhile. They say the vitamin b6 can cause loose stools in some dogs. I was putting in there water previously but when I try it again I am going to use it for tooth brushing so they don't consume so much.

I typically just brush with my fingers because their mouths are very tiny and it is hard to get much in there, even gauze.

I also do not feed them any carbohydrates because those tend to feed bad bacteria in the mouth. I also avoid using anything antibacterial in the mouth as it will kill both good and bad bacteria making it easy for the bad to take over.

The teeth on small dogs can be a challenge, especially if dental structure is poor. However, I believe the diet and tooth brushing as best we can is very helpful. Good luck! Please let us know if you have other teeth cleaning ideas.

Nancy

Hi Nancy -

I am aware of couple of other options couple of which I have tried:

1) New Zealand Deer Velvet + Manuka Honey Oral Spray is a product that I believe has been discussed here. I believe it is a natural product that helps with the overall health of the mouth, gums and teeth. Also, deer antlers was discussed as a possible chew but my dog had absolutely no interest in it when I tried offering it.

2) Bio Brilliant Dental Health Powder is mixed into their food and was recommended to me by Kate Solisti who was one of the speakers but not on the topic of dental heath.

3) The local raw pet food store recommended using neem powder as a natural toothpaste. I have not tried this option yet.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[NancyK]

Hi Nancy -

I am aware of couple of other options couple of which I have tried:

1) New Zealand Deer Velvet + Manuka Honey Oral Spray is a product that I believe has been discussed here. I believe it is a natural product that helps with the overall health of the mouth, gums and teeth. Also, deer antlers was discussed as a possible chew but my dog had absolutely no interest in it when I tried offering it.

2) Bio Brilliant Dental Health Powder is mixed into their food and was recommended to me by Kate Solisti who was one of the speakers but not on the topic of dental heath.

3) The local raw pet food store recommended using neem powder as a natural toothpaste. I have not tried this option yet.

Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the tips.

I have also heard neem oil recommended for teeth cleaning but wonder how effective it is.

The Pet Health and Nutrition Center also has a product called Daily Oral Care that contains beneficial probiotics specifically for the mouth. I forgot to mention that. You just sprinkle it on the food. I do like the products that focus on supporting the good bacteria.

Nancy

 

[ivegrgas]

neem oil

Hi Nancy - I am not an expert but I believe Neem is one of the key herbs/plants in Ayurveda and that every part of the plant is used. I was told that people chew on the branches to maintain oral health. Also, I was referring to neem powder (not oil) and at the minimum powder has abrasive properties.

 

[ChristineL]

Hi @ivegrgas - I hope Xia is doing better now. For Flower Essence for digestive issues, I used "Digestive Woes" by Green Hope Farm. I also used GI Goe by AnimalEo.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

And someone on yesterday's Q&A suggested this GI protectant which looks good:

Nature's Pet Supply - Home Of GastroElm Plus

Nature's Pet Supply is the manufacturer of GastroElm Plus, Colla3 and Colla3 Plus. Each starts with the finest human grade raw ingredients with no fillers, additives or preservatives.

www.gastroelm.com

 

[ChristineL]

And someone on yesterday's Q&A suggested this GI protectant which looks good:

Nature's Pet Supply - Home Of GastroElm Plus

Nature's Pet Supply is the manufacturer of GastroElm Plus, Colla3 and Colla3 Plus. Each starts with the finest human grade raw ingredients with no fillers, additives or preservatives.

www.gastroelm.com

Thanks, Dr. Jeff. Koby was on this but it wasn't very effective...but then again, every individual is different!

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Thanks for the important feedback Christine.

 

[ivegrgas]

Hi @ivegrgas - I hope Xia is doing better now. For Flower Essence for digestive issues, I used "Digestive Woes" by Green Hope Farm. I also used GI Goe by AnimalEo.

Hi Christine - Xia no longer has diarrhea. Thank you for the recommendation for flower essences. I want to have them on hand.