Cat with Broken and Loose Tooth and Shattered Jaw

[JulyS]

@Dr. Jeff and @Dr. Christina,

I am at the emergency vet right now. For the first time since my old vet retired I was completely honest with a vet about what I am and am not doing what I am and am not willing to do. This vet has been so kind and open. His leg is definitely infected, sadly. She is also really unhappy with the way he was splinted so redoing everything now. She's going to do the culture of the infection and we can go from there. She mentioned something called Assisi Loop for inflammation. Sounds interesting. Do either of you have experience with it?

Thanks for all your support.

@Dr. Christina, I don't have virtual or local holistic vet. First is was cost, now it's time. I definitely want/need one though.

 

[Dr. Christina]

Yes, the Assissi loop has helped a lot of the animals in Holistic Actions.

Re finding a vet, take the time to read the article, then just spend 5-10 mins a day looking at one website to add to your possible list.
Dr. Christina

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Oh, thank goodness you went to the vet July!

Good work!!

Yes, an Assisi Loop would be an awe-some way to optimize healing:

Assisi Loop

This was brought up by Dr. Katie Kangas in an Empower Hour (dated 1/28/2019). I got one from her :) Should it not be used it when one is undergoing homeopathic treatment, even when using homeopathy for palliative care?

www.holisticactions.com

Pet Owners - Assisi Animal Health

assisianimalhealth.com

 

[JulyS]

Thank you, @Dr. Christina and @Dr. Jeff.
Do either of you have input on the Assisi loop vs the Lumasoothe? They are about the same price and I just bought the latter. They also seem to be for the same thing, but maybe different approach?

Thanks!

 

[Dr. Jeff]

They also seem to be for the same thing, but maybe different approach?

Exactly! Perhaps see how he responds to the Lumasoothe first.

Remember, his body is designed to heal...

 

[JulyS]

@Dr. Christina and @Dr. Jeff,

At the orthopedic surgeon office. He has an infection they worry will get into the bone. Plus the metatarsal fractures aren't clean breaks. She is recommending amputation. Because the break is on one weight-bearing and one non-weight bearing metatarsal she thinks he should be fine and not lose too much mobility if at all. She recommends this because it is a shorter path to recovery with less risks. She worries that splinting, which is her least favorite of the three options, will be 8-12 weeks but may not heal in the end. The second option is a a surgery to place pins (ex-fix) which will ensure the bones heal, but she is concerned with the timeline, again 8-12 weeks, and him getting sick of it and also the potential of the infection getting into the bone.

I don't take surgery (he has stage 2 kidney disease and is 17.5) or amputation lightly. Of course he will also be sedated for each splint replacement.

Another issue with option 3 is she will be leaving for a few months in three weeks. She wants whoever does the splinting be the same person each time. Her departure makes it tricky. I can return to the other vet but they didn't place anything hard in the original splint so I'm struggling thinking they are the best option. Not to mention all four vets I've seen have given me a different opinion on how often the splint should be changed. ?

All that said I really want to and do trust his body can heal the bones with time. I am concerned with the infection and it not necessarily being monitored by the same vet each time if this vet is leaving. I did start the antibiotics (culture confirmed) and he seems to be fine being confined (for now). Am I misguided to think this can be a bit of a wait and see game? How soon will it be clear the infection is gone and didn't get into the bone tissue? Is there something besides boneset and arnica to give him for the healing process? The vet from two days ago was concerned Lumasoothe wouldn't be able to penetrate through the bandages. The owner of the company was unsure as well. The vet thought the Assisi loop would, however. That is good for swelling, but will it help with bone mending and the infection?

So many things to think about.

Thank you,

July

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Am I misguided to think this can be a bit of a wait and see game?

No.

How soon will it be clear the infection is gone and didn't get into the bone tissue?

I'm unclear what you're asking here. If he is getting better (BEAM wise) it is unlikely. However, serial x-rayswill be the only way to know for sure.

Is there something besides boneset and arnica to give him for the healing process?

There are many possible things, as you know. However if you are asking about potentially useful homeopathic medicines, they would be based on further individualization done by looking at his full history (back to kittenhood).

The vet from two days ago was concerned Lumasoothe wouldn't be able to penetrate through the bandages. The owner of the company was unsure as well. The vet thought the Assisi loop would, however. That is good for swelling, but will it help with bone mending and the infection?

Both tools aid the natural healing and inflammation process. So yes!

BTW-I think your decision right now is whether to consider amputation or not. How was your kitty's life before this injury happened?

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hi again July!

I was just on a glorious Therapeutic Sniff Walk with Archie who is biochemically "very sick" but he's happy, hungry and fully himself.

He says that your kitty would probably prefer the quicker recovery of the amputation...

 

[JulyS]

BTW-I think your decision right now is whether to consider amputation or not. How was your kitty's life before this injury happened?

Yes, that is the decision. Sounds like Archie is for amputation. I have been communicating with my cat, but I have yet to acquire the skills of listening. Before the injury he was a happy kitty who liked to go outside and sleep in the sun or sleep on a cozy spot inside. He hasn't seemed that interested in play, but my busy schedule hasn't given me a ton of time to really take the time to encourage it. The vet said the X-ray showed some arthritis in his lower back so that could be a factor.

He doesn't seem to mind the confined pampered space so I am encouraged by that even in his recovery without amputation, but I am not sure the bones staying is a good enough reason to subject him to all the sedation medicine and risk throughout that process. Is your experience, @Dr. Jeff, @Dr. Christina, @Dr. Jean Hofve, have you seen cats missing one weight-bearing metatarsal have full mobility? Have you seen them have no mobility in that foot? Obviously those are the two ends of the spectrum. Trying to gauge where the average falls.

Thanks again for all your support.

 

[GinnyW]

I've seen multiple totally-three-legged cats who own their universes I honestly don't think he will miss that toe/metatarsal at all, down the road. Animals, and we can see this most clearly in our companions, just DEAL with their circumstances - do what they can, and not miss what isn't there. Healing should be quick and relatively pain-free as well.

Shoot, I thought this was a whole lower leg in question...this ain't a big deal, and he'll be happy and pain-free.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

have you seen cats missing one weight-bearing metatarsal have full mobility?

Yes! Archie and I agree with Ginny that he will be fine without the digit.

 

[JulyS]

No one but the emergency vet could fit him in before he would need to have the splint redone which would include the extra sedation medicine except for the emergency hospital. It's going to cost me an arm and a leg to cost him two toes. ?‍?‍

Thank you everyone for all the support

 

[Dr. Jean Hofve]

Amputation sounds like the best bet for preventing spread of infection and most rapid healing. He will not miss the digits! Cats are incredibly flexible and heal-able. He has all the best support and will no doubt do fine. Stage 2 kidneys shouldn't be an issue with anesthesia given proper fluid therapy and pain management, which I'm sure they'll provide.

 

[JulyS]

Amputation sounds like the best bet for preventing spread of infection and most rapid healing. He will not miss the digits! Cats are incredibly flexible and heal-able. He has all the best support and will no doubt do fine. Stage 2 kidneys shouldn't be an issue with anesthesia given proper fluid therapy and pain management, which I'm sure they'll provide.

Update:

They took a new view x-ray and checked his blood for kidney function before the amputation. His kidney levels were very high leaving anesthesia very risky (he just had a blood panel in Sept and they were same as they had been since he was diagnosed a couple years ago, but shot up). Also she said that while the break was many pieces the new view showed they were in a line so did have a decent chance of healing fully. She changed her recommendation from amputation to weekly splint changes.

She said with me as a third she'd be willing to try doing it without sedation the next time. We did that on Wednesday and it went really well. Unfortunately next week is her last week so I will need to go back to the first vet who requires sedation each splint change. She said she'd make a list for me if supplies and go over what she did more closely so I can do it at home without sedation.

His infection looks good, but she wants him on antibiotics for 14 days total (yikes). He did well for the first seven or eight, but now he is getting some loose stools bordering on diarrhea and very foul smelling. His appetite picked back up after two days on the antibiotics, but it has dropped off again. Not sure if it's because he's been eating canned food and I have been trying to switch him back to raw. Now he mostly rejects both.

I requested a fluid bag to help his kidneys especially while he isn't eating or drinking as much. He seems a bit bored in the confined space, but is also mostly fine to just sleep and perk up when he hears me.

His spirits seem fairly high, but hates the needle poke and being pilled. I am still doing Bengston Method, but not daily, and the Lumasoothe, both on his foot and maybe where his kidneys are. I continue to give boneset (is one touch to the gum once a day enough?), but haven't been doing arnica as much, mostly because I have been trying to do everything and it slips my mind. Do you think I should be giving that daily until he heals? And if so, is once a day or more usually advised under similar circumstances?

I'm definitely unsure/concerned about the length of the antibiotics, his iffy appetite (though he'll eat endless treats), and his bowel situation.

Any thoughts @Dr. Christina, @Dr. Jean Hofve, @Dr. Jeff?

Thanks again for all the support on this roller coaster.

July

 

[Dr. Jeff]

(is one touch to the gum once a day enough

Yes.

haven't been doing arnica as much, mostly because I have been trying to do everything and it slips my mind. Do you think I should be giving that daily until he heals?

Nope. Only if he seems uncomfortable/restless.

Perhaps focus only foods he loves.

Maybe try Medicus kidney diet for cats:

Kidney Support Diet for Cats

Medicus Kidney Support Diets for cats are therapeutic meals designed to provide the nutritional framework for the unique nutritional needs of a CKD cat.

medicusveterinarydiets.com

Coupon code = vitality should both let you order and get you a discount.

BTW-Archie loves their kidney diet for dogs.

 

[JulyS]

Hello @Dr. Christina, @Dr. Jean Hofve, @Dr. Jeff,

Update and question. Benji is continuing to heal, a bit slower than both of us would like, but he is healing. I have been doing his splint changes for the most part. There was a learning curve, but I am getting better. Unfortunately, as he heals he has less and less patience for it. Also unfortunately after I had been doing it a few times I opted to keep the "just in case I can't do it" appointment already made to have a vet's eyes on it. They sensationalized everything... Long story short they said their was tiny piece of bone trying to push its way out. I am not so sure and just checking the area (I believe he had some rubbing because my first two changes slipped and I didn't have help for a few days which lead to a small wound which seemed to have healed.) The problem is when they did the bandage change they used tape (which the other vet had told me was unnecessary so I haven't been doing that). The tape is stuck to his fur and I haven't been able to get it off or really assess with 100% accuracy if he in fact has a hole a bone piece is trying to push out. Tomorrow (Thursday) evening I plan to shave it off (wish I had thought of that three weeks ago). I will have two helpers, but even so he is really distressed during. I have tried flower essences, CBD, talking to him, singing. Because tomorrow will be a lot longer and I really want to take a closer look I am considering gabapentin. I haven't given him anything for a long time and generally prefer not to, but will if needed.

My question is, as far as calming goes, is there something else I am not thinking of that you would recommend? As someone who doesn't use any rx, where does gaba fall on the line of bad? It takes him at least a week to appear recovered from sedation injections. I've given gaba to his sister once for nerves, but never him. In this scenario would any of you recommend it? With extra hands I could definitely forgo. If I just need him a little more relaxed for 30ish minutes what size dose should be given if it is recommended?

Thank you all for your time

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Great work with helping Benji heal! ?

where does gaba fall on the line of bad?

Thanks for asking!! This brings up the hierarchy of drugs that I tend to use.

Of course you know that any drug (or supplement, food, etc.) can cause an unwanted reaction (a "side-effect") by virtue of working on the physiologic (vs. energetic) level.

With that being said tho, and with things like morphine, steroids and anti-biotics being on the "bad" part of the spectrum (9-10/10), I'd put gaba at a 3-4.

In this scenario would any of you recommend it?

Yup.

Dose depends on the relative susceptibility of the individual (I tend to start as low as possible):

Gabapentin for Cats: Usage, Safety, Dosage and Side Effects - Cats.com

Gabapentin for cats can help soothe certain painful conditions. Learn more about its uses, safety guidelines, and more.

cats.com

 

[JulyS]

Great work with helping Benji heal! ?

Thanks for asking!! This brings up the hierarchy of drugs that I tend to use.

Of course you know that any drug (or supplement, food, etc.) can cause an unwanted reaction (a "side-effect") by virtue of working on the physiologic (vs. energetic) level.

With that being said tho, and with things like morphine, steroids and anti-biotics being on the "bad" part of the spectrum (9-10/10), I'd put gaba at a 3-4.

Yup.

Dose depends on the relative susceptibility of the individual (I tend to start as low as possible):

Gabapentin for Cats: Usage, Safety, Dosage and Side Effects - Cats.com

Gabapentin for cats can help soothe certain painful conditions. Learn more about its uses, safety guidelines, and more.

cats.com

Thank you, @Dr. Jeff. This is very helpful.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

YW July!

 

[Dr. Christina]

Wow - you are doing such a wonderful job. Yes, as they feel better it can be much harder.

Are you doing homeopathic medicines? they may be helping a piece of bone come out as a healthy healing.

Be sure to listen to all of Anitra Frazier's talks on HA! and AllPawsPetTalkTV as she is so clear that your thoughts can allow you to do almost anything to a cat.

maybe work with an animal communicator/healer and schedule a time where they are talking while you are doing needed changes. He may say he needs you to wait and take 10 breaths before continuing.

Dr. Christina