Canine - diagnosis of likely spleen tumors into liver - possible support?

[TerriH]

Good evening -- please find the following information:

1. Create one forum thread per pet. If you have more than one case, create a thread for each animal.
2. Your pet's name -- Charlie
3. Approximate age - 10
4. Sex - Male
5. Neutering status - Neutered
6. Breed -- Min Poodle mix (shih tzu but mainly poodle)
7. Approximate weight -- 22 lbs
8. What's their BEAM (behavior, energy, appetite, mood) -- normally good and high energy but stopped eating with diagnosis (relatively little)
9. Diet -- normally raw diet with supplements (fish oil, probiotics, pumpkin, vegetables, and other as needed)
10. Vaccination history / exposure to toxins, other medication - only rabies - no medication at this time except appetite stimulant (entyce)
11. Primary problem, when it began and if there was anything else happening around that time - Approx week ago, Charlie stopped eating one morning. Reg vet appt said that they thought he had pancreatitis (he had vomited twice --- once a morning for 2 days). SNAP test showed abnormal and followup with slightly elevated read (265). Did not improve in the next two days and seemed stiff on walking. Trip to ER and request for xrays and complete review of bloodwork (not done w vet because they did not feel needed) showed bloodwork with severe anemia (RBC count about half what it should be) and xrays and a quick ultrasound that there was tumor involvement in spleen and in liver area. Vets have suggested palliative care -- he is holding on but was hoping to help with homeopathic support for likely internal bleeding (yunnan baiyao??) or other recommendations. He is comfortable, enjoys being near his family, limited on eating, drinking -- weakness from what he is going through -- concern on heart arrhythmia with anemia possibly.
12. Is the condition better or worse from exercise, heat, cold, time of day, certain foods, emotional upset, being touched, excitement, etc? Seems less well early and comes around by early afternoon, no vomiting, dark stool and loose
13. Has any diagnostic work been done? Diagnosis if available (you can attach your diagnostic tests to the post if you have them) - just the report given from xrays and brief ultrasound to confirm concerns to vet at ER that there was likely metastatic cancer in spleen and liver areas.
14. Current and previous treatment -- current is palliative with feeding as he will tolerate, entyce once a day, and trying to get him to eat protein based foods, bone broth, water and basically whatever he will take in
15. Other health concerns - nothing as concerning as this diagnosis

My current holistic vet is very hard to get reasonably timed responses, so I have been reading on my own while doing the palliative care. Was hoping that perhaps treatment with yunnan baiyao may be appropriate due to the likelihood of bleeding with the tumors. If RBC could be boosted, I feel my chances of him returning to better eating (he is normally vociferous) may be possible. I need to start somewhere if more than hospice type care is an option.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hey Terri!

I'm super sorry to hear about Charlie's health challenges.

perhaps treatment with yunnan baiyao may be appropriate due to the likelihood of bleeding with the tumors.

Yes, that's a great idea!

I feel my chances of him returning to better eating (he is normally vociferous) may be possible.

Absolutely. If this was an acute bleed from a splenic tumor, he should gradually improve.

Support hi during this time by focusing on what he usually loves, frequent petting and visualization (that he's producing lots of new red blood cells), and unlimited outside and sniffing time (at least 4x a day).

You might also want to consider a full ultrasound and evaluation by an internist or oncologist. Combined with good supportive care, and depending on the diagnosis, he could have lots of good time left with you.

 

[TerriH]

Dr. Jeff --

Thank you for your reply and information. We are doing exactly that for Charlie, but I feel that the Yunnan Baiyo would be a good first step with the bleeding that has caused him to be so anemic and likely part of what has stopped his eating. Certainly helps with strength depleted with anemia. I have reached out to his holistic provider (it used to be the wonderful Dr. Sara, who you know), to get some assistance on the use and how to administer and am hitting a brick wall on responsiveness. I know that I could do a call with someone (I do not care about the cost at all -- whatever is best for the situation) to get some advice on the use of this chinese herbal remedy to see if it can put a bandaid on the situation until I can get into the specialist (holistic for cancer) when she returns from medical leave next week that I have made an appointment. I am open to any advice. I am not one to self-administer as the vet's receptionist suggested because Yunnan Baiyo is a bit different than many treatments (understanding the maintenance and the emergency pill use), but my conventional vet does nothing in this area and has less knowledge than I do on this side. Can you advise a place to read here or someone to discuss administration of it to see if it helps on the likely bleeding. I have to start there honestly. The front desk of my current clinic was like -- just dose away....it is just a chinese treatment, but I do not believe that is the case. Adminstering it properly is a huge part of how well it may work.

 

[TerriH]

Dr. Jeff --

I just got a call finally from someone on this matter and administration. I wanted to make sure I had the real remedy as I know there are many fakes floating in the market too. (!!!) I am going to see what I can do and will reach back out with other questions as needed. I didn't want to take up anyone's time with the answers finally in hand.

Thank you --

Terri

 

[Dr. Jeff]

You’re welcome Terri!

Yunnan Baiyao, to use or not to use?

www.mspca.org

@Dr. Sara might have more to say about her experience with Yunnan (which I don’t use very frequently).

 

[MichaelT]

Good evening -- please find the following information:

1. in
2. Create one forum thread per pet. If you have more than one case, create a thread for each animal.
3. Your pet's name -- Charlie
4. Approximate age - 10
5. Sex - Male
6. Neutering status - Neutered
7. Breed -- Min Poodle mix (shih tzu but mainly poodle)
8. Approximate weight -- 22 lbs
9. What's their BEAM (behavior, energy, appetite, mood) -- normally good and high energy but stopped eating with diagnosis (relatively little)
10. Diet -- normally raw diet with supplements (fish oil, probiotics, pumpkin, vegetables, and other as needed)
11. Vaccination history / exposure to toxins, other medication - only rabies - no medication at this time except appetite stimulant (entyce)
12. Primary problem, when it began and if there was anything else happening around that time - Approx week ago, Charlie stopped eating one morning. Reg vet appt said that they thought he had pancreatitis (he had vomited twice --- once a morning for 2 days). SNAP test showed abnormal and followup with slightly elevated read (265). Did not improve in the next two days and seemed stiff on walking. Trip to ER and request for xrays and complete review of bloodwork (not done w vet because they did not feel needed) showed bloodwork with severe anemia (RBC count about half what it should be) and xrays and a quick ultrasound that there was tumor involvement in spleen and in liver area. Vets have suggested palliative care -- he is holding on but was hoping to help with homeopathic support for likely internal bleeding (yunnan baiyao??) or other recommendations. He is comfortable, enjoys being near his family, limited on eating, drinking -- weakness from what he is going through -- concern on heart arrhythmia with anemia possibly.
13. Is the condition better or worse from exercise, heat, cold, time of day, certain foods, emotional upset, being touched, excitement, etc? Seems less well early and comes around by early afternoon, no vomiting, dark stool and loose
14. Has any diagnostic work been done? Diagnosis if available (you can attach your diagnostic tests to the post if you have them) - just the report given from xrays and brief ultrasound to confirm concerns to vet at ER that there was likely metastatic cancer in spleen and liver areas.
15. Current and previous treatment -- current is palliative with feeding as he will tolerate, entyce once a day, and trying to get him to eat protein based foods, bone broth, water and basically whatever he will take in
16. Other health concerns - nothing as concerning as this diagnosis

My current holistic vet is very hard to get reasonably timed responses, so I have been reading on my own while doing the palliative care. Was hoping that perhaps treatment with yunnan baiyao may be appropriate due to the likelihood of bleeding with the tumors. If RBC could be boosted, I feel my chances of him returning to better eating (he is normally vociferous) may be possible. I need to start somewhere if more than hospice type care is an option.

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