Bleeding in unspayed dog

[LilF]

Stump pyometra occurs only if enough of the uterus remains. However, as Ginny says, this should not be a problem if a surgical specialist does the OSS.

Have you watched Dr. Sara's great course on neutering that dives deep into these details?

Yes I did watch her entire course but that was months ago when I was going to get her spayed but then she got a waiver. Maybe I will watch it again now that I am further along on my learning curve and will hear things I missed before. The online groups were saying even if they leave the smallest bit of uterine tissue it could cause pyo. This specialty hospital though said they only do 3-4 a month but it is catching on more. So that is really not a lot... It would be ideal to have a surgeon who does them daily and could do them with his eyes closed, like my thyroid surgeon claimed he could do which is why I ultimately picked him--oh yeah, and the line that he took his mother's thyroid out!!!

 

[LilF]

A bit off this thread topic but 2 days ago Blossom ran the fence line with another neighbor pittie. She ran and ran like the wind and like nothing was wrong with her--she does this which is why she puzzles me---like she can turn it on and off. She had a good time, wagging her tail too. BUT, noticed she started limping and not putting wt on her leg. So I took out the Arnica 1M and gave several doses that evening, a couple doses the next day and she was walking normally again. Today noticed just a hint of limp after our walk, gave another dose. Seems to have helped her greatly. Coincidentally though she is on the galliprant for her uterus so maybe that took down inflammation but the Arnica, after about the third dose she started to walk much better as if nothing was wrong.

 

[LilF]

What is the reasoning for taking one of the ovaries out. I do understand leaving one for natural hormone replacement but does keeping only one limit the over production of hormones? What if her ovaries are cystic, like polycystic ovarian syndrome in women, then would it still be ok to leave one in her. She did have a cystic uterus which would come out for sure. I don't know if they did an ultrasound on her ovaries but when I go back thursday I also want them to scan her other organs like her spleen. She still has that exercise fatigue that intuitively haunts me even if testing is normal. I do hope she is not to overweight to do the one ovary procedure. She has gained some weight. I have to go over this with the Repro hospital next week and set up my appointment.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

does keeping only one limit the over production of hormones?

Not necessarily. Maybe Ginny or @Dr. Sara can share why they'd take out one ovary.

 

[LilF]

Not necessarily. Maybe Ginny or @Dr. Sara can share why they'd take out one ovary.

I am still strongly leaning toward doing removal of one ovary and uterus. However I talked to the homeopath who said what I never heard or considered--that the uterus and ovary talk to each other and there is feedback. I suppose there is also a homeopathic protocol to keep her from getting pyometra in the future or to stop it but still not 100 percent convinced enough to take that chance. Tomorrow she gets her ultrasound and she finished her treatment.Maybe I can ask the repro vet tomorrow about the one ovary procedure. At least I would not pay the exhorbitant spay and ICU overnight fees I would have had, up to 5K if I had done a surgery the day she was diagnosed with pyo. Good it was low grade and medical management opened up all the options.

 

[GinnyW]

In my experience, I believe one ovary should produce enough hormone to protect her from the post-menopausal symptoms of having no hormonal activity at all.
and, as others have pointed out, removal of all the uterine tissue will obviate chance of pyo.

Females are born to reproduce - their main purpose, and one that can "use them up" in their contribution to preserving the species above and beyond their own health. I believe the hormonal changes of normal heats may not be all that easy on them - heat cycles can be a bit traumatic, if natural, although the amount of systemic disturbance will vary with the individual. So I would see the single ovary solution as an effective compromise which preserves natural function and health, without either the stress of full-on cycles or the alternative of total absence of beneficial hormones. This solution, of course, is a luxury we can provide, and not a "natural" condition - but a great one, IMO.

 

[LilF]

In my experience, I believe one ovary should produce enough hormone to protect her from the post-menopausal symptoms of having no hormonal activity at all.
and, as others have pointed out, removal of all the uterine tissue will obviate chance of pyo.

Females are born to reproduce - their main purpose, and one that can "use them up" in their contribution to preserving the species above and beyond their own health. I believe the hormonal changes of normal heats may not be all that easy on them - heat cycles can be a bit traumatic, if natural, although the amount of systemic disturbance will vary with the individual. So I would see the single ovary solution as an effective compromise which preserves natural function and health, without either the stress of full-on cycles or the alternative of total absence of beneficial hormones. This solution, of course, is a luxury we can provide, and not a "natural" condition - but a great one, IMO.

I liked this alternative as soon as I heard about it from you. I made the appointment with the experienced surgeon for October 16. Meanwhile, I am going to try to build up her gut from all of the antibiotics that she took. I started the adored beast, probiotic if anybody has any other suggestions let me know, I was not giving her any supplements while she was taking the medication because I wanted her to eat her food so I did not adulterate it with anything that smelled off but just as an FYI I use the open farm gently cooked beef as a great way to mold the pills around And it worked 100% of the time. It was a great thing to use versus a piece of chicken or meat where the pill would fall out and she only got this as a treat with her pills so not all the time for her to get used to it And get bored I’m going to ask the vet today in addition to imaging her uterus to also do a quick abdominal scan because she still has that exercise intolerance

 

[LilF]

In my experience, I believe one ovary should produce enough hormone to protect her from the post-menopausal symptoms of having no hormonal activity at all.
and, as others have pointed out, removal of all the uterine tissue will obviate chance of pyo.

Females are born to reproduce - their main purpose, and one that can "use them up" in their contribution to preserving the species above and beyond their own health. I believe the hormonal changes of normal heats may not be all that easy on them - heat cycles can be a bit traumatic, if natural, although the amount of systemic disturbance will vary with the individual. So I would see the single ovary solution as an effective compromise which preserves natural function and health, without either the stress of full-on cycles or the alternative of total absence of beneficial hormones. This solution, of course, is a luxury we can provide, and not a "natural" condition - but a great one, IMO.

So she would not have a heat with only one ovary but would have a heat with 2? I just got back from the doctor with her and he did not know why one would leave in one only. Someone on the FB group said in the case of mammary cancer then it would be easier to find one ovary instead of 2 to remove it. Are ovaries removed in mammary cancer? The doctor told me to post in the FB group and let them know what they say about only removing one and maybe they all can learn something. That answer surprised me a bit.Her uterus is still cystic and the doctor said it was from progesterone. So are her ovaries producing too much progesterone Her blood test for progesterone was ok at .4 I think it was. But progesterone would make her tired if she has too much--progesterone does that in humans --I just heard that on a zoom meeting on that last night that I listened to. So is her slow walking from progesterone--it makes me wonder about her fatigue.

 

[LilF]

I talked to the Repro doctor today, in person visit, to go over all my options and concerns. He thought removal of Blossom's ovaries laprascopically would be best. He said he COULD remove the uterus but since she had pyo already it is a lot harder to not leave any tissue in there but he thought he could do it. He said no benefit to leaving one ovary in. He also mentioned false pregnancy as another matter if she kept her hormones. He said to leave both ovaries in if I wanted the OSS. He did say that he would leave the uterus in if I decided on the ovary removal because he said the uterus is progesterone sensitive and it would not be an issue without the ovaries. He said that Blossom got pyo because she is probably hormonally sensitive to the progesterone. He said pyo is first a hormonal disease. So the conditions were ripe for her infection and said she would probably get it again. That is why we are doing the surgery now before her next heat in December. He said the surgery is so much easier than removing the uterus and the recovery is so short she can go home without antibiotics. So I would like her to keep her hormones but don't want problems hormonally yet to be manifested. I do not mind the heats etc.... but don't want any other health problems. I believe she may be 4 or even 5 years old. I hope there would not be too many changes in her personality. I told the doctor I liked her nesting and mothering tendencies. He said if she does it when she is not in heat then the spay would not affect that.