"weirdness in spleen and liver"

[ckraham]

Not sure where to post this, but looking for support as to next step while trying to process. Took my 11/5 old Saluki in for ultrasound of bladder to see if he was still clean from stones 6 months post surgery for stone removal, and to see if Chinese herbs and diet were working. Good news: bladder and kidneys are in great shape. Additional news: ultrasound showed "changes" on the liver and spleen and some accompanying lymph nodes. I have not seen the report. My integrative vet recommends chest x-ray to see if lungs are clear, and if they are clear, to do a LOT of invasive tests (fine needle aspirates and biopsies of internal organs, guided by ultrasound, or possible exploratory surgery.

I have never been in this position before--probably because I have never done an abdominal ultrasound on a middle aged or older dog.

I do not want to aggravate my dog and not sure I can afford thousands of more dollars in tests that could lead to surgeries and conventional treatments I may not want to put my sweet dog through. Where in holistic medicine do you seek diagnostics? Do I just treat based on symptoms when and if they appear? Could it just be "older dog weirdness" or inflammation? What would you do if this were your dog?

I have had Saluis live to be quite old and having issues that were "unknown" and treated with holistic medicine and ozone and diet. But if there is something that can be headed off...do tests? I also know that aspirating the wrong "weirdness" can cause more "weirdness" and have a breeder friend who had such an aspirate done on her dog's spleen and dog ended up bleeding out as it turned out to be hermangiosarcoma (which is in my bloodline, in fact this dog;s sire had it--not saying this is what it is)

Ideas how to proceed or process are welcome.

Meanwhile ordered more medicinal mushrooms, got him started on CBD oil (an eager for the talk tomorrow), BioPrep 3, and cancer fighting vegetables.

The anti-bladder stone diet has grains and things like sweet potatoes and beets in it, so thinking to reduce the grains and replace sweet potatoes with squashes to reduce sugar intake.

By the way, this dog is AWESOME.

Thank you, Cassandra

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hi Cassandra-

You're so right that these might be common aging changes that you wouldn't know about without doing abdominal ultrasound.

Invasive and expensive diagnostics, hmm?

I'd base that decision on history, internal and external symptoms via observation, blood and urine tests +/- additional abdominal ultrasound.

Great news about your pup's BEAM!

 

[Dr. Sara]

Dear Cassandra,
Has your senior Saluki had previous ultrasound investigations? If so, that would be the place to start, by comparing previous U/S results to these results.

I refer my clients to an amazing internal medicine specialist for ultrasound investigation. He notes that many elderly dogs have benign nodules on the liver and spleen, and lymph nodes can vary in size and shape. The important thing is the progression of signs and U/S findings, always with an assessment of the patient's overall condition.

As your dog is otherwise healthy, and I assume has reasonably normal blood work and urinalysis, I agree with Dr. Jeff that there is no hurry to proceed with invasive procedures. We should always ask what we expect to achieve or determine with tests, and this battery of investigations sounds a bit like a fishing expedition. If you have no previous basis for comparison, I would consider repeating an ultrasound in another six months,
Cheers,
Dr. Sara

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Wow, thank you so much Dr. Sara for pointing out the importance of trending??? all diagnostic test results.

Doing so will provide more context for Cassandra's HMDM and help her make mindful medical decisions!

Cassandra, Dr. Sara is advising that you could use this as your baseline AUS (abdominal ultrasound) and repeat it in 4-6 months.

Trended diagnostic test results like ultrasounds, blood and urine tests, x-rays, etc. are much more informative than single test results.

Evaluating trended results is like watching a movie vs. looking at a snapshot of a single test result.

Trending of test results is necessary to make them as useful as dynamic (and frequently changing) symptoms like BEAM as well as all other early warning signs.

These will let you know if your pup's internal balance is shifting as it would with progression of any dis-ease.

Does that make sense?

Thanks so much to Dr. Sara and Cassandra for this awe-some thread! It's a very, very, important Holistic Action! that is overlooked by some veterinarians.

Now you can start holding your vets accountable to trend any diagnostic test result!

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Another thought this morning which is especially germane for tonight's CBD webinar.

Certain supplements, like CBDs, are very effective at palliating symptoms.

Even if all external symptom early warning signs resolve while taking a supplement, the internal symptoms (diagnostic test results) may not.

The very best way to monitor these internal symptoms is by trending the test results.

This applies both to palliation by supplements as well as for when conventional drugs are being used to cover up symptoms.

You can absolutely use supplements and drugs to enhance your pets quality of life and BEAM.

However, don't forget to continue evaluating their totality in context by trending diagnostic test results.

 

[ckraham]

Thank you Dr Jeff and Dr Sara. My dog goes for chest x-rays tomorrow and additional bloodwork. One of his team heavily suggests aspirating liver, spleen, and accompanying lymph nodes. Dog's sire had hemangiosarcoma, and I understand doing so can cause them to potentially bleed out "if" this s what I am dealing with. He is also going to have ozone tomorrow. Another vet friend read the report for me yesterday and said it advises spleenectomy. He just lost two littermates to hemangio and the only one alive from that liter is the one who had the spleen removed years ago. A client just had splenectomy on her dog because he stopped eating...found out same day I dropped my dog for ultrasound. Wondering if all of this info is going to me as a sign from the universe and that the info found by accident on that ultrasound (it was to scan his bladder for stones) was a gift to let me know something was wrong that I otherwise would not have known.

Or...could be benign old dog nothing (that still can burst--or can be treated without surgery??)

Needless to say I am pretty confused and trying to stay grounded so I can make the best decision with his team.

If it helps to write the report here I will find it. I actually have not had the heart to read it myself as I have been slow in processing this information and at first was trying t blow it off like nothing was happening to my dog.

I will save my dog and he will have the ing healthy life he deserves. I just need to find the right path.

I will find report and maybe someone can advise whether it looks like yes, remove, or wait and repeat in 4-6 months while treating with herbs (three of my team do chinese herbs), acupuncture, ozone, and Dr Jeff, you are saying CBD is good? Was not sure if palliating was what I want here--but palliating is way better than getting worse.

I just know that I have had old dogs I have treated symptomatically before for lots of things...with no clue what was going on inside...but maybe never had a dog with this before.

By the way, in case I forgot to mention before, this dog ROCKS, I mean, is the perfect dog. He has a lot of unique personality traits and other things that could likely find him a remedy...have not done a lot of homeopathy with him in the past.

Thank you guys for being there and for this site and these forums and talks, Cassandra

 

[Dr. Jeff]

You're welcome Cassandra, and yes, it does seem that the universe is trying to tell you something!

You brought up an excellent and important point about unexpected findings found on lab tests.

These findings are one reason why routine screening is so useful and important.

Please let us know what the further testing finds (my gut instinct is that everything else will be normal).

 

[ckraham]

I am going to go with your gut feeling that everything else is normal and going to remain positive and look at this finding as a gift

And then when it is all behind us, will help him write his book, "How Bladder Stones Saved my Life"-- since that is the reason behind the ultrasound.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

HA!

Love the title!

It's along the same vein as this one:

"How Cancer Saved My Life".

This is the story of my cousin who was in the midst of chemotherapy and felt some twinges in his chest.

He would have ignored them except for the warnings from his oncologist who advised immediate action for any symptom changes.

My cousin went to the ER right away where they found 99% blockage of his main coronary artery and was rushed right into surgery.

He's alive and well today thanks to his docs strong advice to listen to his body.

Your pup's "routine" screening is very similar in that your mindful monitoring of this internal symptom is what allowed you to find the abnormalities.

I think we all need to listen to our pets' bodies while using their Vitality and Balance to treat them.

I look forward to reading your book!

 

[ckraham]

WOW> Thank god he did not ignore that and that he had his doctor's voice in his head reminding him not to ignore any symptoms. looking forward to happy ending here too.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Yes, great point!

This HA! was because of a mindful doctors urging, but many are not as respectful of the signals from the body.

However anyone can do this and you don't need a good MD or vet to do learn how since the principles are straightforward.