Vomiting Pup

[novasimpson]

Hello!

I had a thread for Tater Tot about "dry cough" but I thought I would start a new thread since her symptoms have changed. We just had an appointment with Dr. Jeff a few days ago on 4/9/21.

TT had been having a dry cough that has much improved! She still has the cough on the colder days (very few now and when I get home and she is excited. In the past, she has also had a lot of pooping issues -soft poop, liquid poop, squirting poop -you name it! With lots of work with Dr. Jeff, this forum, and food allergy testing that lead to change in diet. Now her poop is almost always formed, done outside and firmness is really good to great (on an ok to perfect scale).

A new symptom that has arisen is vomiting. It started on 3/3/21 and has been increasing over the last month and is now almost daily. Her vomit is typically first thing in the morning before she gets out of bed and it is yellow liquid or brown liquid with little bits of treats. Here are some stats:
3/3-4/8 ~22 vomits
--11 in the morning (or overnight) -she barely seems to register most of them, lifting her head, retching, vomiting, back to sleep
--7 during day hours
-4 during her afternoon walks (these stopped once her doggie walker gave her some treats before start of walk)
--7 out of the 22 had some food/partially digested food in them

Also of note, sometimes she will be sleeping on her side and she will pop up and start licking lips. Or will noticeably burp and either a little yellow liquid will come out or she will lick her lips. I have heard her belly gurgle a couple of times (not typically though).

I would feel okay about all this except she now sometimes takes a few minutes to start eating her food (especially breakfast) and this worries me. Her excitement in walking has also decreased (especially in the morning/early afternoon). She has been going upstairs to nap (vs staying downstairs) and staying in bed longer in the morning (vs jumping up and running downstairs).

Plan with Dr. Jeff:
--4/9: test dose of Silica q1 10/1 qtip then if no change dose again 4/11 and 4/12 then update.
---> after 1st dose of Silica on 4/9, TT laid down on bed in living room and was shivering (not that cold) and after each inhalation would lift her head and do a chicken bob movement). I covered her up but she still seemed unable to fall asleep b/c shivering and with breathing in she would lift her head and wake herself up again. She vomited 4/9, 4/10 and this morning had a burp with a little yellow liquid coming out. So will dose again today.
--increase Happiness Protocol!
--consider course of Mitomax once not changing remedy.

Tater is overweight ~12 lbs with goal of 11 -11.5 lbs (such a small amount but can make a big difference! and would most likely help with the vomiting...? I was reading about GERD & IBD upper GI tract. I was wondering about adding something natural that may work like famotidine or a PPI. In the past, I have given her fennel to help with regurgitation.

Any thoughts on natural supplements? Will order Mitomax to start after Silica is given for a bit. Tater Tot can definitely skip some meals (weight wise) but with my recent experience with Toshi-mama and her not eating, I just have a lot of anxiety about TT not as interested in food. And if she isn't eating, I think it must be that she isn't feeling well...and I want to help with that.

Thank YOU!!!

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Thanks so much for posting Nova your experiences with Tater Tot!

Yes, it is really worrisome when our beloved pets' BEAM decreases.?

You are 100% correct that palliating her appetite symptom in any way (such as with supplements) will make it more difficult to assess her Sil. doses.

Regarding supplements, perhaps just now focus on re-balancing her internally.

As she improves, her appetite should return to normal.

 

[GinnyW]

Watching with interest... Generally, were she not so disturbed digestively, a couple of things come to mind: many dogs will vomit yellow bile when their stomachs are unexpectedly empty. That said, even this tiny dog is a dog, and would be eating like a dog if she only ate once daily, eventually. This might be something we can work towards when she is more "tuned up". It would help with her weight as well as with all her metabolic functions: hormones, cellular metabolism, etc. Note also that voluntary fasting is a natural healing strategy, which is to say you should not worry about "missed" meals or inappetance. So, while watching her body respond to the guidance of the remedy, try not to be tempted to enforce meals, or to start introducing anything new. You are excellent at observation, and I am sure you and she won't get into trouble

 

[novasimpson]

Hi! Thank you both for your advice, information and support!

I gave Silica q1 10/1 qtip per plan: 4/9 @ 12pm, 4/11 @930pm, 4/12 @ 5pm
4/9: right after remedy, laid down in kitchen then came into living room and in bed –shivering, snoring and at end of inhalation would do a chicken bob (stick head out from neck)
4/11: overnight jumped off bed and slept on floor and dog bed on floor (unusual)
4/12: right after, good shakeoff then ~10mins later snuffled on her own then came on sofa with me and slept --belly was VERY GURGLY

BEAM:

B:
-VOMIT: 4/10 (yellow liquid with 2 treats; ~5 hours since eating, gave her 2 treats then she vomited)
4/11: in car, burped and a little yellow liquid came out (this was ~1 hour after eating and right after a walk)
4/12: FOUND @ 4pm, on ottoman and floor -liquid vomit with teeny bits of food (unsure of color b/c it had soaked in)
POOP: same, maybe a tad more on the good side (vs really good to great) but all formed
COUGH/SNEEZING: increased since change to SILICA, some overnight/AM and when I get home from work -she usually chases balls for a few mins -she coughs when she sees me and then after 1 chase started coughing a bunch of hmph so I stopped playing and she just laid down.

E:
--from 4/9-4/12: her energy is low in the morning, early afternoon but then increases to normal/baseline/peppy in late afternoon on. Some mornings in the past she is tired, especially when I work day shift b/c get up ~5-530am
--today 4/13 her energy is improved in the morning -had some pep!

A:
4/10: I gave her egg (instead of pork) for dinner -she took a few mins to start eating then only ate ~1/2 (she use to eat eggs regularly but interest has been down the last few months)
4/11: didn't eat breakfast right away -I put MVI chew in bowl and then she ate the MVI and food -slowly

M:
--her walks--some are normal/good and some remind me of right after Toshi passed and I would have to put her in stroller to get her anywhere. For example, in morning she usually likes to walk to Pepes and around the parking lots for 30+ minutes but 4/10-4/12 mornings she wanted to walk across street and back. If I drive to a different area or stroller her, she usually will walk well.

OVERALL -I think today she has improved energy. Over last few days, I haven't noticed any jumpiness -she seems calmer (less barky) and she has been going upstairs alone less...I have made a point of hanging out upstairs doing chores or cuddling with TT.

Last night, I was thinking that the Silica has seemed to led to some changes but not sure if positive ones Today, I am thinking to continue daily dosing and monitoring. Any thoughts about remedy dosing?

Thank you!!

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Thanks for this update Nova.

I agree with you about once/day dosing.

BTW-The B in BEAM usually refers just to behavior symptoms like her noise reactivity, any aggression, etc. Typically vomiting/diarrhea/coughing etc. are considered more physical (vs. behavior or BEAM) symptoms. That being said, it's totally fine to include physical behaviors in with this category.

It is the difference in categorizing physical vs. behavioral stuff that is useful to know.

 

[novasimpson]

Hello! Thank you! We will continue to dose daily. Do you think keep with 10/1 for now and see if she "plateaus"? Then increase to 15/1.

That makes sense about the BEAM...so really physical symptoms dont fit into BEAM...which makes sense. I think I get Behavior and Mood confused sometimes too! I guess note to self to try to focus on beam vs physical when getting a feel for how she is doing.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hey Nova-

Yes (with the dosing succusions)!

Behavior and mood are tricky to separate sometimes. Perhaps think about behavior as what she does and mood, how she does it.

For example, she may have the normal behavior of greeting you at the door, but may not have her usual smile when she does it.

 

[novasimpson]

Love that example!!

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Thanks Nova!, and I hope you had a happy and super-special day!

 

[novasimpson]

Hello! I wanted to pop in with an update on this vomitus eruptus pup

Tater Tot has been vomiting regularly since the beginning of March 2021. It started mostly in the morning, yellow bile and then progressed into some day vomit and more with undigested food particles.

Tater Tot has had a few episodes in the past of "cough drop" -totally not a fan! It is when she coughs for 15+ coughs and then gets wobbly and weak and usually lowers herself or collapses to the floor. Well it happened the other night but with vomit. She was vomiting a large amount (IMO) for such a little pup and she ?passed out for a split second. It is a vasovagal response and I don't like it. When she vomits, she usually recovers relatively quickly within 5-15 minutes, looking for treats and acting normal.

Since her last update above, TT was increased from Silica q1 10/1 qtip daily---> 15/1 qtip daily --> 20/1 qtip daily, last dose 5/3/21. Her vomiting seem to worsen, cough the same and poop about the same. Her energy the last few days before our appt on 5/5/21 was improved. After her vomit drop (happened overnight), the next morning -she was full of pep and energy and took a longer walk!

I reached out to Dr. Dodds because she has been helping with TT's food allergies and diet (food allergy testing). Just a quick shout-out for Dr. Dodds, the allergy testing was crazy helpful but also since then, she has been so supportive with all my questions! She responds quickly and I am super grateful to her and to Dr. Jeff for his recommendation. Dr. Dodds recommended starting 1.5 rounded tsp of unsweetened applesauce at bedtime and 2.5-5mg famotidine (Pepcid) in the morning, 30 minutes before breakfast (serving size and dose is for a ~12 lb dog) to help with "low-grade morning gastritis". She also mentioned that licorice could be used instead of famotidine. I started with famotidine b/c I had it in the house but in the past I have given TT crushed fennel seeds mixed with peanut butter to help with regurgitation.

We had an appt with Dr. Jeff and per Dr. Jeff: hold off on dosing for now. If she relapses with decreased BEAM +/- other older (NOT new) symptoms for more then 12 hours, then dose with Silica q2 5/1 qtip x1 and observe.

I am going out of town this month and so plan to continue Tater Tot with the applesauce and famotidine. I like to avoid drugs in Tater and myself (even though I am a pharmacist but have decided to keep it for now and plan to transition her to licorice or fennel seeds after my travels.

She has been on the applesauce/famotidine plan for about 4 days and is doing great -1 small vomit, great poops and wonderful, peppy energy with great, longer walks!

And now a shout out for Dr. Jeff and his awesomeness and amazing ability to help me feel hopeful and empowered! <3 <3

And finally a shout-out for this forum and everyone on it!!! Lots of gratitude and love flowing your way!

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Wow, thanks so much Nova!

I really appreciate your awe-some forum post and shout out.

You made my day (and weekend).

 

[LilF]

Hello!

I had a thread for Tater Tot about "dry cough" but I thought I would start a new thread since her symptoms have changed. We just had an appointment with Dr. Jeff a few days ago on 4/9/21.

TT had been having a dry cough that has much improved! She still has the cough on the colder days (very few now and when I get home and she is excited. In the past, she has also had a lot of pooping issues -soft poop, liquid poop, squirting poop -you name it! With lots of work with Dr. Jeff, this forum, and food allergy testing that lead to change in diet. Now her poop is almost always formed, done outside and firmness is really good to great (on an ok to perfect scale).

A new symptom that has arisen is vomiting. It started on 3/3/21 and has been increasing over the last month and is now almost daily. Her vomit is typically first thing in the morning before she gets out of bed and it is yellow liquid or brown liquid with little bits of treats. Here are some stats:
3/3-4/8 ~22 vomits
--11 in the morning (or overnight) -she barely seems to register most of them, lifting her head, retching, vomiting, back to sleep
--7 during day hours
-4 during her afternoon walks (these stopped once her doggie walker gave her some treats before start of walk)
--7 out of the 22 had some food/partially digested food in them

Also of note, sometimes she will be sleeping on her side and she will pop up and start licking lips. Or will noticeably burp and either a little yellow liquid will come out or she will lick her lips. I have heard her belly gurgle a couple of times (not typically though).

I would feel okay about all this except she now sometimes takes a few minutes to start eating her food (especially breakfast) and this worries me. Her excitement in walking has also decreased (especially in the morning/early afternoon). She has been going upstairs to nap (vs staying downstairs) and staying in bed longer in the morning (vs jumping up and running downstairs).

Plan with Dr. Jeff:
--4/9: test dose of Silica q1 10/1 qtip then if no change dose again 4/11 and 4/12 then update.
---> after 1st dose of Silica on 4/9, TT laid down on bed in living room and was shivering (not that cold) and after each inhalation would lift her head and do a chicken bob movement). I covered her up but she still seemed unable to fall asleep b/c shivering and with breathing in she would lift her head and wake herself up again. She vomited 4/9, 4/10 and this morning had a burp with a little yellow liquid coming out. So will dose again today.
--increase Happiness Protocol!
--consider course of Mitomax once not changing remedy.

Tater is overweight ~12 lbs with goal of 11 -11.5 lbs (such a small amount but can make a big difference! and would most likely help with the vomiting...? I was reading about GERD & IBD upper GI tract. I was wondering about adding something natural that may work like famotidine or a PPI. In the past, I have given her fennel to help with regurgitation.

Any thoughts on natural supplements? Will order Mitomax to start after Silica is given for a bit. Tater Tot can definitely skip some meals (weight wise) but with my recent experience with Toshi-mama and her not eating, I just have a lot of anxiety about TT not as interested in food. And if she isn't eating, I think it must be that she isn't feeling well...and I want to help with that.

Thank YOU!!!

Hi, I read about Tater and "feel your pain" on the bilious vomiting. When I see Gabby licking her lips, it is time to grab the paper towels or head for the tile floor, or outside!!! I am giving you my experience and not saying what is right for Tater. First: My Gabby has had bilious vomiting since she was 2 and now she is 14. But, she used to do it a few times a year. Her bilious vomiting seemed to have increased when something more underlying was going on. In Fall of 2019 she was HYPERthyroid and the bilious increased. After removal of the tumor the bilious ceased for months. The year after that her Albumin was trending downward until it got dangerously low. When it got really low, the bilious vomit increased. I was offered Prilosec which I turned down because dogs need acid to digest food and that was a bandaid. I was also offered Reglan to tighten the sphincter which I refused. I looked for a reason for all the symptoms. Taking a deeper dive into the underlying problem revealed Protein Losing Enteropathy. None of the above would have solved the problem. The bilious increase was related to all of the above underlying problems IMO as I keep frequency data like you do. Long story short, Gabby has some gut issues and I have been using glutamine, seacure, digestive enzymes, low fat diet and cooked diet. Her blood numbers have improved the past several months and bilious and regurg have gone down to a couple times a month. Her bilious seems to be an indicator of whether she is better or worse with the underlying problem. So Gabby is doing better with the interventions. Gabby gets a small meal first thing in the morning. What I DID notice distinctly was she would go to the water bowl after that and fill up with water. THEN, the vomiting and regurg was noticeably worse. All the food came up. So I restrict the water after eating for an hour and just give a small amount maybe 45 min afterwards She gets all the water she wants, as I said about 1 1/4 hours post eating. This has eliminated her vomiting after that morning meal. I had a doctor in the 90's who said not to drink water with meals as it dilutes the enzymes and digestive juices so I used that info on her and it works. Furthermore. I talked to an integrative vet this week on the idea of fasting and raw anything for my particular dog and it is NOT advised. The treatment for my dog is not fasting. I feel one must heal the gut without forcing more or worsening of symptoms. The treatment for Protein Losing Enteropathy is low fat diet and digestible food which is NOT raw. I fed her raw her whole life up till now. Organs or prey diet is not appropriate in all cases under all circumstances. IMO, the glutamine in her case has been major. I feel the glutamine heals the gut. My integrative vet took it herself for 3 years for an ulcer. Thank goodness she told me about it. I noticed a decrease in the vomiting pretty quick. I know you are doing homeopathy and don't know where other things fit in that is why this is just MY experience. I have not done homeopathy yet but would like to. I am happy with my results with Gabby. She is 14 and symptoms and her stats are improved. Good Luck but look for something underlying maybe.

 

[novasimpson]

Hi @LilF -Thank you so much for your story and information. Tater has had a long history of "IBD" issues and low albumin at times! I feed her a cooked, low fat diet . Can you tell me more about the glutamine and seacure you use?

I agree with that these are symptoms not to be suppressed. And I do think I am doing that temporarily with Pepcid.

Thank you!

 

[novasimpson]

Tater Tot update: DECISION TIME-- to dose or not?!

Hello! So last dose: Silica q1 20/1 qtip on 5/3. Plan from last phone appt with Dr. Jeff on 5/5: If she relapses with decreased BEAM +/- other older (NOT new) symptoms for more then 12 hours, then dose with Silica q2 5/1 qtip x1 and observe.

Tater had some awesome energy and longer walks 5/5, 5/6 and 5/7 -lots of pep! Then yesterday, she didn't want to walk as much -she did some of her walkies but was slower and walking "gingerly" and hesitated coming down the 2 steps into the condo (but came down fine). This morning, she stumbled a little coming downstairs but was okay. This AM, again she didn't want to walk. I took her on her stroller to the park and she walked home (lots of sniffing) but walked slowly. When we hit Pepes near the end of our walk -she got a little more pep/energy in her step.

Tater Tot usually walks with pep --like she is prancing . But yesterday and this AM she was walking slowly. And when we stopped I noticed her right front leg quivering.

ALso yesterday and today she was shivering. It is on the chillier side (and she was groomed last week).
She hasn't vomited since 5/5. Her poops have been great. She started again asking for permission to get up on the bed. Yesterday, one of the toddlers was banging something near her and she seemed a little more reactive.

So....I can't tell if this is a drop in BEAM (dose) or if this is a new symptom and maybe she tweaked her foot/leg?

Here is a link to 2 videos (if it works -1 is her walking...slight limp?! And the shorter one shows her leg quivering.

She is still going up and downstairs and jumping on bed/sofa and down.

2 new items by Nova Simpson

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Dr. Jeff]

What do you feel that you should do, and why, Nova?

 

[novasimpson]

Hmmm.....I go back and forth about dosing or not. Is this her BEAM decreasing and I am looking for a physical reason or is this her tweaking her leg.

I would say give her a dose bc she is acting differently and slightly off for ~24 hours now. And if she did tweak herself -this is her current constitutional remedy and could help.

So I say dose.

....?!

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Your words here:

Tater had some awesome energy and longer walks 5/5, 5/6 and 5/7 -lots of pep! Then yesterday, she didn't want to walk as much -she did some of her walkies but was slower and walking "gingerly" and hesitated coming down the 2 steps into the condo (but came down fine). This morning, she stumbled a little coming downstairs but was okay. This AM, again she didn't want to walk

would say to me that it's time for a dose of Silica q2 5/1 qtip x1

The reason being that she seemed to transiently respond, and then relapse.

And her body isn't giving us any new clues (symptoms) so I say "press ahead" and give her the increased potency. This will tell us 2 things.

1. Is the remedy similar enough to cause a response?

2. She reponded well to the Q1 but will she still "resonate" with the Sil. Q2 potency? As you know, higher potencies can act deeper. They also need to correspond closer to the underlying energetic/physiologic imbalance in order to fulfill #1.

 

[novasimpson]

Hi Dr Jeff,

Thank you so much! I gave her a dose Silica q2 5/1 qtip a couple of hours ago and will watch her closely! Thank you! She has mostly been sleeping since the dose. She is hesitant to jump off sofa and down 2 stairs....but then does it.

It makes sense what you pointed out above. She had great energy then her beam dropped.

I guess my question is...her not wanting to walk is part of her normal low beam.....but the favoring her front right leg and hesitation to jump down would be considered new symptoms? But we give this dose and see how she responds? Vs giving a new remedy or even just arnica?

 

[JoannC]

What an amazing turnaround! Can I aswhen giving the silica what does 10/1 quip mean. 10 pellets of what strength, etc? I am still trying to learn. Thank you.

 

[novasimpson]

Hi @JoannC --it is Silica q1 (a liquid bottle I got from Dr Jeff). Then I succuss it 10 times (hit it against my palm) then clear the dropper if any liquid and suck up new liquid. Then put 1 drop into 8oz of water then I dip a qtip into the water/drop mixture then touch the qtip to Taters gum/tongue or inner lip. And Tada-dosed!

In the past, Dr Jeff mentioned the qtip dosing (vs tsp or such) is gentler.

I am not sure if you can purchase q1 online or rather need to get it from a homeopathic compounder (?) I believe Dr Jeff makes the bottles he gives.

Hope this helps!