Need help - Teddy (cat) with probable HCM and right-sided congestive heart failure

[RuthR]

Yesterday was a very bad day for Teddy and me. It started off fine, with him sitting in the recliner with Mike and watching Cat TV and napping. Then we went to his vet appointment, and immediately Dr. Stern noticed he wasn't his normal self. I knew something was wrong because his abdomen has been swollen and hard. She took x-rays and found his abdomen is full of fluid. She sent the x-rays out for a specialist consultation (attached) and they think it may be HCM with secondary right-sided congestive heart failure. After they brought him back into the room from taking the x-rays, he actually looked like he was dying. I have never seen him like that before. Dr. Stern said he was in a lot of pain, because he went to bite them when they were moving him around, and he has never done that before.

However, when we got home, he again acted normal, like nothing was wrong. He ate a snack and ate all his meals as usual after that. Dr. Stern has me giving him Sustenance Herbs Organic Dandelion Leaf Extract twice a day to act as a natural diuretic. I am also using essential oils to try to help him. We are trying to get him in with a cardiology specialist, but I don't know how long that will take. I would like to start giving him some natural supplements as soon as I can get them to see if they will help.

I am looking at the following supplements:

Heart Tonic for Dogs and Cats

Heart Tonic is an herbal formula that helps dogs and cats with various cardiovascular ailments. It is blended by a Master Herbalist using USDA certified organic herbs and organic vegetable glycerin for the health of your animal. Enjoy more organic, whole

www.pethealthandnutritioncenter.com

Heart Glandular for Dogs and Cats

Heart glandular is a supplement that helps dogs and cats with heart issues. It is recommended by a Master Herbalist and is from New Zealand, grass-fed bovine. Enjoy more organic, whole food supplements and herbal remedies by visiting The Pet Health and Nu

www.pethealthandnutritioncenter.com

https://www.amazon.com/Pet-Wellbeing-Young-Heart-Cats/dp/B01N6UPT7T/ref=sxin_23_sbv_search_btf?cv_ct_cx=heart+tonic+for+cats&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ApzBaD6q_AHf5l7VwQcU3g.TxJXHK343P5LsZW1KxWqn7C-BLbaSWtQfdGaWBGM4qk&dib_tag=se&keywords=heart+tonic+for+cats&pd_rd_i=B01N6UPT7T&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sr=1-1-5190daf0-67e3-427c-bea6-c72c1df98776

Amazon.com

Would any or all of these four supplements help him? The two from Amazon I can probably get delivered tomorrow or Sunday.

Thank you.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Oh dear Ruth! I'm so sorry to hear about Teddy's possible HCM.?

Would any or all of these four supplements help him?

Yes. They could support his heart's stability and healing.

However, right now the very most important thing is his happiness and lots of sniffing and playing the hunt for treats game as often as possible.

The rationale for this approach, especially in cardiac dis-eases, is to increase oxygen and energy flow.

And especially because the feelings of joy and purpose (like those of hunting and eating!) will keep his body working as well as it can for as long as it can.

Therefore, try not to be forcing him to take any supplement or mix anything in his food that decreases his enjoyment of it.

Does he have a snuffle mat and like freeze-dried chicken hearts?

Broken up into tiny pieces, the hearts are great to use in the snuffle mat and for scattering on any carpeted surface for him to search out and eat.

Yes, a cardiologist and echocardiogram are the next step (diagnostically). The x-ray report is suggestive, but not diagnostic.

Did Dr. Stern take any fluid out of his belly and send it to the lab, or do any blood tests?

@Dr. Jean Hofve, do you have any other thoughts for Teddy?

 

[Dr. Christina]

In addition to the great quality of life suggestions by Dr. Jeff, I would strongly suggest working virtually with a veterinary homeopath as the most gentle treatment available since often they do not like taking a lot of supplements.

Dr. Christina

 

[RuthR]

Dr. Stern did not want to try to take any fluid out without using an ultrasound.

I don't have a snuffle mat for him, but perhaps it is time to get one.

We got Standard Process Feline Cardiac Support and SP Cardiotrophin PMG and Sustenance Herbs Cardio-V from Dr. Stern today and started giving them to Teddy today. I crush up the tablets, so it's easy to put that and the liquid in raw burger and Teddy eats it with no issues.

I contacted Dr. Tewari to update her with what I know. She responded there are remedies that can help/palliate cardiac problems or diseases, but his condition is irreversible. She suggests not trying to add on different modalities or treatments because Teddy will be exhausted with all sorts of treatments; he is already on cardiac support herbs and supplements.

Dr. Christina, do you agree with that?

 

[Dr. Christina]

I do agree to not add on too many treatments or modalities.
Be sure you give her any of your observations about how he is acting - like feeling better once home - so she can make the best prescription now.

Even if the heart may not repair itself, the vital force, with good remedy selection can have Teddy living a high quality life for as long as possible.

Dr. Christina

 

[RuthR]

Unfortunately, what Dr. Tewari meant is she can't help Teddy with homeopathy. Is it time to look for another homeopathic vet?

 

[Dr. Christina]

Yes, I would think so, if that was what she meant.
maybe Drs. Judith Herman, Todd Cooney, Adriana Sagrera, Jeff Levy

and definitely do energy healing work.

Dr. Christina

 

[Dr. Jean Hofve]

I guess I'm not seeing *why* they think it is heart failure? There are many other potential causes. Usually there would be a murmur, and HCM has a very distinctive cardiac shape on x-ray. Not quite seeing that on the report.

If they're sure it's a heart issue, Cardiotrophin is fabulous (I take it for my DCM!)

On those supplements, I would *not* give the Heart Tonic. For one, it's for dogs and cats, and dogs don't get HCM, so it's too general. Plus, hawthorn could make HCM worse. The glandular is fine but cardiotrophin and feline cardiac already do the same thing.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

his condition is irreversible

Where there's life force energy, healing can occur. Do we see reversal of pathologic processes like this often, no. But do we do recognize "Radical Remissions" of even more severe pathologic dis-eases.

Radical Remission: Surviving Cancer Against All Odds: Turner PhD, Kelly A.: 9780062268747: Amazon.com: Books

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www.amazon.com

the vital force, with good remedy selection can have Teddy living a high quality life for as long as possible.

Yes!

 

[DayshaG]

@RuthR My best wishes for Teddy and you!

 

[RuthR]

Thank you for all the replies. Teddy's medical issue was identified as a possible heart issue at his visit with Dr. Stern on Feb. 15. She recommended we take him to Dr. Jonathan Goodwin, a cardiologist that had previously treated her own cat. By the grace of God, he was seen by Dr. Goodwin on Feb. 17 (report attached). Dr. Goodwin suspects that Teddy's hyperthyroidism is causing his heart issues. He has been on the medications listed in the report since the evening of Feb. 20.

He has a visit with Dr. Stern on March 18 for bloodwork and acupuncture, and we'll schedule a follow-up visit with Dr. Goodwin in May.

He has been acting normally and eating normally, and it seems like the swelling in his abdomen is going down. We're taking things one day at a time, but if all goes well and Teddy gets a good report from Dr. Goodwin in May, he had recommended the I-131 treatment to take care of his hyperthyroidism. We are seriously considering it, because it seems that, despite all we are doing, we just can't control his thyroid. If we go ahead with the I-131, we are looking at taking him to FAQ — PetRad LLC.

Also, is anyone familiar with Rapamycin and the Trivium study? I'm not sure if this is something that would help Teddy.

Delayed-release rapamycin halts progression of left ventricular hypertrophy in subclinical feline hypertrophic cardiomyopathy: results of the RAPACAT trial

Abstract OBJECTIVE Feline hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM) remains a disease with little therapeutic advancement. Rapamycin modulates the mTOR pathway, preventing and reversing cardiac hypertrophy in rodent disease models. Its use in human renal allograft patients is associated with reduced...

avmajournals.avma.org

I would appreciate any thoughts that anyone has on all of this information.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hey Ruth!

Wow, Dr. Goodwin really "gets around". He's the primary cardiologist at many of the vet hospitals around here as well.

I've heard (I never met him) that he's a really good guy (and very good vet cardiologist).

I'm not sure if this is something that would help Teddy.

The study show that it slows down progression of the dis-ease. Personally, tho, I wouldn't be willing to risk this:

Five cats experienced serious adverse events during the study period, 4 of which were removed from the study

Yes, hyperthyroidism and HCM (heart dis-ease) in cats go together.

As Dr. Goodwin said, permanently destroying his thyroid with radioactive iodine is the conventional treatment of choice for kitties in Teddy's situation..

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Oh, and one more thought about Rapamycin and mTOR that came to me this am.

Just like everything else we think about doing for our kitties, be it diet changes, supplements, drugs, homeopathy, etc. it is super important to look at the entire individual and the situation, in context.

Here's a series of articles that may help put mTOR in the context of the Vitality and Balance that we're trying to promote:

Using the Vitality and Balance System in Holistic Veterinary Practice - Holistic Actions!

www.holisticactions.com

Longevity, Vital Capacity, Pranayama, and the Exposotype - Holistic Actions!

www.holisticactions.com

mTOR - Holistic Actions!

www.holisticactions.com

 

[RuthR]

Thanks, Dr. Jeff. Also, what brand of freeze-dried chicken hearts do you recommend? I would like to get him a snuffle mat, as you suggested.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

YW Ruth!

I hope he loves his snuffle mat and playing the "hunt for treats" game.

treats-hearts — Smallbatch | Dog & Cat Food

smallbatchpets.com