Lyme

[StephanieS]

We recently went to the vet to have Zeppelin tested for heartworms so he could go on heartgard and I guess they also do a lyme antibody screen. The vet came out and told me he has lyme and is testing positive on an antibody screen. Upon further questioning they shared that they can't determine much other than he was exposed at some point and he has the antibody. The vet said that most people do a round of antibiotics to be safe. I asked if there was further testing they could do in order for us to determine his current state. They ran a platelet count and it came back very high at 617,000. They said that that is most likely because he was over excited from getting his blood drawn. They said they can also run a lyme quantification panel if needed, but we'd have to go back. He is not showing any symptoms so I am guessing he was bit by a tick, which has happened many times, and his immune system fought it off and now has the antibody. Should we get the lyme quantification panel? This is new territory for us so just want to make sure I'm navigating correctly.

 

[Dr. Christina]

Stephanie,
You are absolutely correct - "I am guessing he was bit by a tick, which has happened many times, and his immune system fought it off and now has the antibody. "

Since no symptoms, no need for further testing.

I would suggest you read about heartworms before doing the monthly.

And you can learn a lot about lyme here at HA - click on member resources, then click on the lyme box!

Dr. Christina

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Should we get the lyme quantification panel?

Yes (IMHO). However, you don't need a full panel. Just a quantitative C6 and a urinalysis (you ca just bring a mid-stream morning urine sample).

For a lot more information about making decisions about Lyme, I'd urge you to take the Lyme course which is in your HA! member area.

@aruna I'd appreciate it if you point Stephanie directly to the course.

 

[StephanieS]

Yes (IMHO). However, you don't need a full panel. Just a quantitative C6 and a urinalysis (you ca just bring a mid-stream morning urine sample).

For a lot more information about making decisions about Lyme, I'd urge you to take the Lyme course which is in your HA! member area.

@aruna I'd appreciate it if you point Stephanie directly to the course.

Thank you all. Is there a downside to the full panel? Or an advantage of just doing the C6 and urinalysis. I am imagining attempting to get a urine sample from Zeppelin not going so well. lol

and yes I would love a link to the course. thank you!

 

[aruna]

@StephanieS - you can access the lyme course by clicking here.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Is there a downside to the full panel?

Great question Stephanie! In my mind the only downsides to the full panel or any non-invasive diagnostics are:

1. Cost

2. Making a treatment decision based solely on the test result

First morning urine samples are usually pretty easy to collect from most male dogs who are happy to pee!

 

[StephanieS]

Great question Stephanie! In my mind the only downsides to the full panel or any non-invasive diagnostics are:

1. Cost

2. Making a treatment decision based solely on the test result

First morning urine samples are usually pretty easy to collect from most male dogs who are happy to pee!

ok I will call tomorrow and see if thats an option. If we end up going the full panel route I will wait and report back test results here before proceeding with anything

 

[StephanieS]

@Dr. Jeff Zeppelin got a Lyme Quant C6 and his results were 107 U/mL. Thoughts? The vet of course said he needs antibiotics because it exceeds 30U/mL.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Is Zeppelin showing any (even subtle) symptoms?

No matter what you decide, you may want to start optimizing his immune function with the actions in the member Holistic 101 course (which is at the main site), increasing his outdoor activity, Therapeutic Sniff Walks and Happiness Protocol.

Breathing: A Powerful and Surprising Way to Increase Your Pet’s Health and Happiness - Holistic Actions!

www.holisticactions.com

HA! Happiness Protocol: 7 Ways to Optimize Your Pet's Life

How can you empower your pet to live their happiest life? Here are seven activities to implement and boost your pet’s behavior, energy, appetite, and mood.

www.holisticactions.com

The Happiness Protocol in Your Pet's Life

At HA! we are committed to much more than helping pets become dis-ease free. We promote restoring and maintaining vitality, balance, energy, & happiness.

www.holisticactions.com

In addition, Dr. Judy Herman has a clinically proven herbal protocol for Lyme here on the forum:

Herbal support for Lyme positive dogs

In Maine like the rest of New England we have a lot of positive dogs with Lyme. Most of these dogs are not showing any outward symptoms. Over the last year, I have been approaching my Lyme positive patients differently than I have in the past. I have tried different herbal formulas...

www.holisticactions.com

 

[StephanieS]

Is Zeppelin showing any (even subtle) symptoms?

No matter what you decide, you may want to start optimizing his immune function with the actions in the member Holistic 101 course (which is at the main site), increasing his outdoor activity, Therapeutic Sniff Walks and Happiness Protocol.

Breathing: A Powerful and Surprising Way to Increase Your Pet’s Health and Happiness - Holistic Actions!

www.holisticactions.com

HA! Happiness Protocol: 7 Ways to Optimize Your Pet's Life

How can you empower your pet to live their happiest life? Here are seven activities to implement and boost your pet’s behavior, energy, appetite, and mood.

www.holisticactions.com

The Happiness Protocol in Your Pet's Life

At HA! we are committed to much more than helping pets become dis-ease free. We promote restoring and maintaining vitality, balance, energy, & happiness.

www.holisticactions.com

In addition, Dr. Judy Herman has a clinically proven herbal protocol for Lyme here on the forum:

Herbal support for Lyme positive dogs

In Maine like the rest of New England we have a lot of positive dogs with Lyme. Most of these dogs are not showing any outward symptoms. Over the last year, I have been approaching my Lyme positive patients differently than I have in the past. I have tried different herbal formulas...

www.holisticactions.com

Ok, will do. He seems like his usual self. What do the results mean exactly? Should we be worried?

 

[Dr. Jeff]

The results mean that Zeppelin's immune system is doing its job and producing antibodies against a protein on the Lyme bacteria.

No. Worry and anxiety of indecision are big motivators for doing something (anything).

Perhaps take a few deep cohesive breaths (breath slowly and deeply to a 5 count in, hold for 5, count to 5 for the exhalation, then hold for 5) then go outside.

Better yet, take your pup outside and breath while he sniffs around.

Focus on what I mentioned in the above post, and monitor his C6 and urine every 4-6 months.

If you feel the need to give the anti-biotics, also don't worry.

Just know that his microbiome will be disrupted so he will need a rotation of probiotics for a few years.

Perhaps start with The Wolf from Adored Beast then rotate through their other probiotics.

Pre & Probiotics

Pre & probiotics are an essential part of a healthy supplement regimen. Probiotics encourage the growth of friendly bacteria in the gut, helping to crowd out harmful, disease causing bacteria. And prebiotics feed probiotics, allowing them to thrive! To keep your animal healthy, you want to help...

adoredbeast.com

In fact, you may want to start the probiotics (which are also immune boosting) even if you don't use the doxycycline antibiotic.

 

[StephanieS]

Ok, will do. He seems like his usual self. What do the results mean exactly? Should we be worried?

The results mean that Zeppelin's immune system is doing its job and producing antibodies against a protein on the Lyme bacteria.

No. Worry and anxiety of indecision are big motivators for doing something (anything).

Perhaps take a few deep cohesive breaths (breath slowly and deeply to a 5 count in, hold for 5, count to 5 for the exhalation, then hold for 5) then go outside.

Better yet, take your pup outside and breath while he sniffs around.

Focus on what I mentioned in the above post, and monitor his C6 and urine every 4-6 months.

If you feel the need to give the anti-biotics, also don't worry.

Just know that his microbiome will be disrupted so he will need a rotation of probiotics for a few years.

Perhaps start with The Wolf from Adored Beast then rotate through their other probiotics.

Pre & Probiotics

Pre & probiotics are an essential part of a healthy supplement regimen. Probiotics encourage the growth of friendly bacteria in the gut, helping to crowd out harmful, disease causing bacteria. And prebiotics feed probiotics, allowing them to thrive! To keep your animal healthy, you want to help...

adoredbeast.com

In fact, you may want to start the probiotics (which are also immune boosting) even if you don't use the doxycycline antibiotic.

thanks Dr Jeff. Are we ok to move forward without the antibiotic and see how the herbs and his immune system responds? This is all very new for us so not sure whats absolutely necessary and what his immune system can combat vs needing an antibiotic.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Well, my own pup's Lyme C6 was 748 and he was also asymptomatic and did not get anti-biotics. It dropped by 65% within 3 months with extra Therapeutic Sniff Walks, Happy Meals, and the Amber Naturalz herbal protocol.

"Successful" anti-biotic therapy (3-4 weeks of doxycycline) for an elevated Lyme is a 6 month decrease of 50% so I'd say his body did a pretty good job.

Perhaps focus more on Zeppelin's inner terrain rather than the germ:

A Way To Connect Modern Veterinary Medicine And Ancient Wisdom: An Introduction To Terrain Theory - Holistic Actions!

www.holisticactions.com

No matter what you chose to do tho, monitoring of blood and urine every 4-6 months would be a good idea.

 

[StephanieS]

Well, my own pup's Lyme C6 was 748 and he was also asymptomatic and did not get anti-biotics. It dropped by 65% within 3 months with extra Therapeutic Sniff Walks, Happy Meals, and the Amber Naturalz herbal protocol.

"Successful" anti-biotic therapy (3-4 weeks of doxycycline) for an elevated Lyme is a 6 month decrease of 50% so I'd say his body did a pretty good job.

Perhaps focus more on Zeppelin's inner terrain rather than the germ:

A Way To Connect Modern Veterinary Medicine And Ancient Wisdom: An Introduction To Terrain Theory - Holistic Actions!

www.holisticactions.com

No matter what you chose to do tho, monitoring of blood and urine every 4-6 months would be a good idea.

got it! thank you!

 

[StephanieS]

Is Zeppelin showing any (even subtle) symptoms?

No matter what you decide, you may want to start optimizing his immune function with the actions in the member Holistic 101 course (which is at the main site), increasing his outdoor activity, Therapeutic Sniff Walks and Happiness Protocol.

Breathing: A Powerful and Surprising Way to Increase Your Pet’s Health and Happiness - Holistic Actions!

www.holisticactions.com

HA! Happiness Protocol: 7 Ways to Optimize Your Pet's Life

How can you empower your pet to live their happiest life? Here are seven activities to implement and boost your pet’s behavior, energy, appetite, and mood.

www.holisticactions.com

The Happiness Protocol in Your Pet's Life

At HA! we are committed to much more than helping pets become dis-ease free. We promote restoring and maintaining vitality, balance, energy, & happiness.

www.holisticactions.com

In addition, Dr. Judy Herman has a clinically proven herbal protocol for Lyme here on the forum:

Herbal support for Lyme positive dogs

In Maine like the rest of New England we have a lot of positive dogs with Lyme. Most of these dogs are not showing any outward symptoms. Over the last year, I have been approaching my Lyme positive patients differently than I have in the past. I have tried different herbal formulas...

www.holisticactions.com

It now seems as if zeppelin may be showing some symptoms. He had a limp a couple weeks ago that went away after a couple of days that we just attributed to a strain playing ball. Now it seems as if he has a little hitch in his step in another leg. It looks like it might be the same leg he injured when he was a puppy. Its raining today so it could be that I'm paranoid and he's just a little stiff today and the two are unrelated. He seems fine otherwise. I'm not sure if this changes anything and we should move forward with the antibiotics, start homeopathy or still continue the herbal and boost the immune system route. the only issue with the herbal route is the peritan is no longer being manufactured. If we do move forward with antibiotics my other concern is also diminishing his ability to fight infection in the future. We live in a high tick area and it's impossible to avoid bites completely. It seems like this is going to be an ongoing thing unfortunately.

 

[Dr. Christina]

We often do get a little paranoid when we are worried. Since all is good (BEAM, etc), I would not suggest antibiotics. I would definitely start to work with a homeopath as she/he will be building vitality and balance, not merely treating Lyme, or a limp. then you will be less worried about this being an on-going thing.

Do take our Lyme course.

check the forum for the many discussions about preventing ticks getting on (especially the new www.tickless.com tag and www.fleadestroyer.com for the yard).

Dr. Judith herman did a talk about protecting active, hiking dogs from getting ticks.

Most importantly, work to build full health, then your pup will stay symptom free.

Dr. Christina

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hi Stephanie-

He seems fine otherwise. I'm not sure if this changes anything and we should move forward with the antibiotics, start homeopathy or still continue the herbal and boost the immune system route

If you already have a vet homeopath on your vet care team, then I'd ask them this great question. They would have the full context of Zeppelin's other symptoms and history to be able to answer based on his individuality.

 

[StephanieS]

thank you @Dr. Christina @Dr. Jeff

It seems like he is fine and I was a bit paranoid. We've taken the lyme course and are doing/have tried all the preventives. We live on 11 acres in VT so sometimes we dont catch all of them. We are currently set up with Dr. Jeff as our homeopath. I spoke to him last week and feeling better. Thanks for the help. Will continue to build his vitality.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Thanks for your note Stephanie.

After our chat, I spoke with Dr. Judy about the discontinued Amber Naturalz supplement. She is currently using the Vibactra Plus and Bor-L-Immune:

Bor-L-Immune®

Sustenance Bor-L-Immune® is for use with dogs and horses during tick season. Now with Cryptolepis Ingested daily at the first sighting of ticks and throughout tick season will help support the Interleukin 2, Th1 and Th2 immune response. During a tick bite, the saliva of the tick inhibits TH1...

www.sustenanceherbs.com

 

[StephanieS]

Thanks for your note Stephanie.

After our chat, I spoke with Dr. Judy about the discontinued Amber Naturalz supplement. She is currently using the Vibactra Plus and Bor-L-Immune:

Bor-L-Immune®

Sustenance Bor-L-Immune® is for use with dogs and horses during tick season. Now with Cryptolepis Ingested daily at the first sighting of ticks and throughout tick season will help support the Interleukin 2, Th1 and Th2 immune response. During a tick bite, the saliva of the tick inhibits TH1...

www.sustenanceherbs.com

ok great! thank you for this. I just received the Bor-L-immune. Is this administered daily or 10 days on and 10 days off like the vibactra? If it is cycled should they be taken at the same time as the vibactra? I also purchased the immunity blend from real mushrooms and was planning on cycling those the 10 days when off the vibactra. Let me know your thoughts. thank you!