Looking for Thoughts on Immune Mediated Polyarthritis

[jsqueglia]

I am writing on behalf of a friend not for specifics but general thoughts on IMPA.
She has a 7 yr old American Eskimo Dog that has just been diagnosed after a bad bout with Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. The other dog in the household tested positive as well but no symptoms. The IMPA dog nearly died and then appeared to have a relapse so was treated with more antibiotics and then severe lameness and after joint taps and other labs has been diagnosed. The dog is in Massachusetts in the Worcester area. The vets have prescribed prednisone and she is frightened that it will kill her dog as she had another dog die after being on pred. I realize that is her association and may not be the actual cause of death but never the less it is a real fear for her.
I have advised seeking a holistic/integrative veterinarian in specific one who works with Homeopathy and /or TCVM. She seems to be onboard for TCVM but I can't yet sway her to homeopathy...

I advised she get an opinion from her regular long time conventional vet, she already has an appointment with the internist that diagnosed the RMSF and I suggested she get a consultation with a vet that she knows in Chelmsford that practices TCVM. She has her diagnostics, I have guided her to to do her research (and have sent some info her way )and then make a decision based on what she learned. HMDM in progress...

So MQI: For all HA! Veterinarians.... or others with experience with IMPA
What is your experience with this autoimmune disease?

She is currently using the pred but at a lower dose. The dog is very painful. She added Gabapenton but didn't have much effect. I have not advised her in any direction on the pred dosing (or Gabapenton)but I am pushing for her to contact a veterinarian ASAP for further advice. Maybe I am wrong but I always thought that with pred you either use it as prescribed or you don't esp. in an acute situation and you seek alternative medicine ASAP.

Are there any practitioners in the Worcester/Boston area that you would recommend?

Any words of encouragement/hope I can give her about this autoimmune condition? This is one of her agility dogs.

I am also concerned that I have guided her as much as I can in the right direction. If there are awesome success stories that I can relay to convince her that alternative ways will help, that would be great!

I also mentioned massage, Sniffari's and or Scatter Feeding.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts! Jackie

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Wow, Jackie! Thanks so much for helping guide this pup's mom in the direction of healing and back to "flow" (optimal performance for agility dogs).

No, she's probably not going to kill her dog with the pred and it can help provide immediate pain relief along with PEMF/Assisi, acupressure, massage, etc.

Yes, you can use pred at a lower dose however I strongly urge her to follow her vet's advice.

My own experience with IMPA depends on the context of the patient. Things like medical history (especially vaccinations and symptom suppression), diet, etc.

I have advised seeking a holistic/integrative veterinarian in specific one who works with Homeopathy and /or TCVM. She seems to be onboard for TCVM but I can't yet sway her to homeopathy...

Now may not be the best time for trying to introduce homeopathy or anything new (especially something so far outside the mainstream). But a skilled acupuncturist, or any vet focused on energy building and balancing, can absolutely help.

But there's definitely an alternative-minded vet locally (or virtually) that your friend can consult with if she's so inclined.

Has she consulted with anyone other than the emergency vet/internist?

She may also want to consider consulting with someone at Angell Memorial (Jamaica Plain).

Their # is ‭(617) 522-7282‬ and I'd be happy to contact an internment (who is still on staff) for recommendations if she decides to take this course.

@Dr. Christina and @Dr. Sara may also have other suggestions.

 

[jsqueglia]

Dr Jeff,
Thank you so much for your thoughts and suggestions. As well as your kind offer to speak with the intern at Angell. I have passed along the info. and will see what she decides. She does have an appointment with the doctor who diagnosed the RMSF, I think within a week or so. He is also due for Rabies vacc. and I told her no way, not now!! He did have a Lyme vacc she thinks sometime in the spring. The RMSF I want to say was July/August but not sure. He also has a cough which kicks up especially after barking and when there is a weather change. Which of course the vets she has seen so far just say they "suspect lower air way disease" and toss it off... I am like wait, that's important!. Bad receding gums so dental disease. I really hope she goes the alternative route as he has so many clear symptoms.... beyond what i have written...she is a person who takes really good care of her animals. Her dogs eat a raw diet with raw meaty bones and chews with varied brands and proteins. Thank you again! I will post as I know more.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

You're welcome Jackie.

Yes, it would be great to get a holistic perspective about therapies for this pup's IMPA.

Please let me know if you'd like me to contact Angell and Dr. Brum for you (he's been on staff there since our internship in 1985!).

 

[GinnyW]

I would advise her to look into LDN, or Low Dose Naltrexone. It works specifically with the immune receptors in the body to quell inappropriate and over-the-top immune responses. It has been used successfully in all sorts of human syndromes such as lupus, MS, fibromyalgia, various arthritic conditions: rheumatoid, psoriatic, etc. There are many folks using this with their animals as well; I am on a FB list of thousands. LDN sometimes takes a bad rap from doctors unacquainted with its use, which is completely unrelated to its use as a withdrawal aid in addiction. So she will need to search a bit to find a sympathetic vet. I trained my vet in it The best site, and one which links to just about every aspect of LDN use, is at LDNResearchTrust.org.

 

[jsqueglia]

Thanks so much Ginny for this advice. I remember now your recent discussions on this LDN. I will pass this information along as well. Is LDN used for the life of the dog/person or is it able to be discontinued once the immune system calms down? Or is it, It Depends. Another question for @Dr. Sara @Dr. Jeff @Dr. Christina .....In this instance where the IMPA has occurred after a lot of antibiotic use due to a really bad case of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, would you breed this dog? He is one of very few Standard American Eskimo Dogs, which have a very small gene pool,
to have been blessed with a diverse set of genes. Every dog in this line that we have tested with Embark comes up 100% clean for all of the genetic diseases they test for.

 

[jsqueglia]

Another question.... Would Quercitin be of any help in this case?? I am a fan of it for inflammation and have also used it for severe flu to quell the cytokine storm thanks to my Naturopath.
Could she use Quercitin now along with the pred? Once the pred has done its job and she weans him off would the continued use of Quercitin be worth trying? Just my rambling thoughts... none that I have suggested or talked about with her.
@ Dr. Jeff I have mentioned to her again your offer to talk with Dr Brum. I think she goes to Sturbridge next week to see the original internist.
I personally would probably have 3 or 4 appointments in place to gather all possibilities asap but she seems to be the one step at a time individual.

Except for the inflammation and pain,which likely effect his Mood, his BEAM is awesome. Currently on pred and doing really well.

I personally think this dog would benefit hugely from homeopathy and/or TCVM.
I can only hope this will be her path that she comes around to.
Alternately, Ginny's suggestion sounds like a choice if she can convince the vets. At this point she is working between 3 vets.
She did cancel his dentistry for the moment and is willing to try to get an exemption from getting the Rabies booster. Some vets are not always willing to do that either but I told her No Rabies now and she seems to agree.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

In this instance where the IMPA has occurred after a lot of antibiotic use due to a really bad case of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, would you breed this dog? He is one of very few Standard American Eskimo Dogs, which have a very small gene pool,

Maybe. It depends on what happens with the polyarthritis. Like with foregoing the dental and vaccinations, pregnancy and nursing are big stressors. If she's fully recovered and back in a strong equilibrium (agility and especially nosework will help) then sure, she's OK to breed IMHO (because of her breed lines and stability otherwise).

Would Quercitin be of any help in this case?? I am a fan of it for inflammation and have also used it for severe flu to quell the cytokine storm thanks to my Naturopath.
Could she use Quercitin now along with the pred? Once the pred has done its job and she weans him off would the continued use of Quercitin be worth trying?

Yes, yes, and yes (and a rotation of probiotics)!!

 

[jsqueglia]

Thanks so much for your reply Dr Jeff.
Her dog is actually a male. So as long as the arthritis does not hinder him breeding a female...it would be great to have his diverse genetics back into the gene pool.
I will let her know about the Quercetin and I will be sure she is still giving the probiotics . I know she had been giving probiotics and I told her to keep going even after the antibiotics were finished.
She was also contacting a veterinarian she knows in Chelmsford that does acupuncture and Chinese Herbals. She is working her way through the information and is realizing if she wants a cure(if possible) then alternative is the way to go. It's outside her comfort zone but she is willing which is good.

 

[GinnyW]

LDN works by occupying the receptors in the immune system. It keeps them from overreacting, and then after each dose when the LDN wears off/uses up, the receptors celebrate by producing endorphins, obviating pain and damping inappropriate autoimmune responses. It's not a drug, has no drug effect, and causes no actual change to body tissues - it can be and is also used pretty much forever. Folks say it gives them their life back; I can only imagine the animals must feel good, too. There is reported success with arthritis, cancer, allergic reactions, myelopathy, etc. In my dog it cleared up a longstanding lame shoulder - in weeks! It's a tiny dose, no withdrawal, no interference with any other adjunct including nutriceuticals, homeopathy, physical therapy, etc.

NO shots now or ever! This poor dog is certifiably immune-impaired. Once she gets a statement to that effect, she can tuck it away and treat her dog's health. However, I do agree with Dr. Jeff that breeding would not be out of the question, all other circumstances being favorable. While there MAY be a genetic predisposition to autoimmune issues, they can be mitigated or avoided by great diet, husbandry, homeopathy, and LDN, should they come up in future generations - no more than one would do for any dog.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

. It's outside her comfort zone but she is willing which is good.

Fantastic that she is growth (and open) minded!

Many of us (pet parents) do more for their pets than we do for ourselves.

 

[jsqueglia]

LDN works by occupying the receptors in the immune system. It keeps them from overreacting, and then after each dose when the LDN wears off/uses up, the receptors celebrate by producing endorphins, obviating pain and damping inappropriate autoimmune responses. It's not a drug, has no drug effect, and causes no actual change to body tissues - it can be and is also used pretty much forever. Folks say it gives them their life back; I can only imagine the animals must feel good, too. There is reported success with arthritis, cancer, allergic reactions, myelopathy, etc. In my dog it cleared up a longstanding lame shoulder - in weeks! It's a tiny dose, no withdrawal, no interference with any other adjunct including nutriceuticals, homeopathy, physical therapy, etc.

NO shots now or ever! This poor dog is certifiably immune-impaired. Once she gets a statement to that effect, she can tuck it away and treat her dog's health. However, I do agree with Dr. Jeff that breeding would not be out of the question, all other circumstances being favorable. While there MAY be a genetic predisposition to autoimmune issues, they can be mitigated or avoided by great diet, husbandry, homeopathy, and LDN, should they come up in future generations - no more than one would do for any dog.

Thank you for the explanation Ginny! I can see where there is real value in the LDN...very interesting! I have passed along this info.. Jackie