Large cell lymphoma in my cat

[Dr. Jeff]

Hi Lisa!

I'm so sorry that you are at the point of considering euthanasia.

In the Westport area, I love Dr. Melissa Shapiro for compassionate in home euthanasia:

Custom In-home Veterinary Care | Visiting-vet-service | Connecticut

The Visiting Vet Service provides full service veterinary house calls for dogs and cats in Fairfield County, CT. Mobile vet service for dogs and cats.

www.visitingvetservice.com

And I think that the Lap of Love vet is very nice as well.

 

[LisaArk]

@Dr. Jeff, @Dr. Christina
@Dr. Jean Hofve
Dr. Jeff, Thanks very much for the recommendation. I am firmly convinced that Punk understands English because he is rallying again. He's eating well, flicking his tail happily, going into lower pantries when I open them....he is truly confounding. I do understand though, we are on a downward trajectory....I'm just worried because the next few days are just about the busiest of the year for me and I won't be home much. What a balancing act. Thanks again...

 

[LisaArk]

@Dr. Jeff, @Dr. Christina
@Dr. Jean Hofve
Has anyone heard about this ---fenbendazole for cancer? A friend mentioned this to me...last ditch thought, when all else is lost. Thanks in advance... Oral Fenbendazole for Cancer Therapy in Humans and Animals.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Fantastic to hear that Punk feels better!

Has anyone heard about this ---fenbendazole for cancer?

Yup! It works on the cellular level (disrupts microtubules) and is in the class of can't hurt but might help.

If Punk is eating well then a bit of Panacur or Safeguard (the OTC version) in his food might be a possibility. However, it's not something to do if it keeps him from eating.

 

[LisaArk]

Fantastic to hear that Punk feels better!

Yup! It works on the cellular level (disrupts microtubules) and is in the class of can't hurt but might help.

If Punk is eating well then a bit of Panacur or Safeguard (the OTC version) in his food might be a possibility. However, it's not something to do if it keeps him from eating.

@Dr. Jeff, how do I find this? If Safeguard is over the counter, so far I can't find it. And in looking on Amazon, it says, for "equine" or "for goats..." is fendbendazole, simply fendbendazole, or is there something different put in for each animal. Any clue of how to find it, I'm all ears! Do you know of a particlar place in our area to purchase it? It's not at any of the usual store around here. I found this on Amazon and says it for dogs, but the ingredient is simply, Fendbendazole.
Can I use this for Punk, and if so, how much?
This particular one will get to me tomorrow.
Thanks again!

Amazon.com

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Can I use this for Punk, and if so, how much?

It may be off label (not officially approved for cats). Dr Jean might know. Speak with your vet about the dose. Here’s one source:

Administer 100 mg fenbendazole per 1 kg (2.2lb) bodyweight as a single dose. ... 1 g sachet /dose Treats 2 kg (4.4 lb) bodyweight as a single dose... 1.8 g sachet / dose Treats 4 kg (8.8 lb) bodyweight as a single dose

 

[LisaArk]

It may be off label (not officially approved for cats). Dr Jean might know. Speak with your vet about the dose. Here’s one source:

Administer 100 mg fenbendazole per 1 kg (2.2lb) bodyweight as a single dose. ... 1 g sachet /dose Treats 2 kg (4.4 lb) bodyweight as a single dose... 1.8 g sachet / dose Treats 4 kg (8.8 lb) bodyweight as a single dose

@Dr. Jean Hofve @Dr. Jeff
Dr. Jeff, honestly, I asked through emails and staff at Dr. Seo's a while back and I they didn't seem to even want to deal with it. It's hard to get to Dr. Seo through the staff. I have a conventional vet in NYC, I'm not sure he'd go for it. Are you saying it's "approved" for dogs, but not for cats? Thanks for the info above.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

“Although fenbendazole is currently not FDA-approved as a veterinary medication in other species such as cats and ferrets, veterinarians can legally prescribe medications for use in other animals in certain circumstances. This is called extra-label or off-label use because this use isn’t described on the drug label.”

 

[Dr. Jean Hofve]

Glad Punk is feeling sparkier!

To answer your question though, fenbendazole has been able to kill some types of cancer cells in petri dishes, but that rarely translates to real life. There is no evidence that it is useful for cancer in pets.

The anti-parasitic dose (50-100 mg/kg) might kill a few surface cancer cells along the intestinal wall, if it could even penetrate the mucus barrier. Deworming formulations aren't supposed to be absorbed, they're supposed to stay in the GI tract and directly poison the parasites (worms and flukes) sitting there.

Because it is given by mouth, it would have to reach the cancer through the bloodstream, but it is poorly bioavailable. (It can have adverse effects if it *is* absorbed, but the deworming dose is quite safe.)

From what I can determine, the risk of toxicity is much greater than any possible benefit.

 

[ElissaB]

Hi @LisaArk , I have been following Punkin's story for the past couple of weeks. I also have a presumed IBD kitty, Bach, with gallstones and stones in the common bile duct so your story caught my attention and I decided to join. Hope Punk is doing well today.

 

[LisaArk]

Glad Punk is feeling sparkier!

To answer your question though, fenbendazole has been able to kill some types of cancer cells in petri dishes, but that rarely translates to real life. There is no evidence that it is useful for cancer in pets.

The anti-parasitic dose (50-100 mg/kg) might kill a few surface cancer cells along the intestinal wall, if it could even penetrate the mucus barrier. Deworming formulations aren't supposed to be absorbed, they're supposed to stay in the GI tract and directly poison the parasites (worms and flukes) sitting there.

Because it is given by mouth, it would have to reach the cancer through the bloodstream, but it is poorly bioavailable. (It can have adverse effects if it *is* absorbed, but the deworming dose is quite safe.)

From what I can determine, the risk of toxicity is much greater than any possible benefit.

@Dr. Jeff,
Hi @Dr. Jean Hofve, What about this story, of someone with lung cancer? A Journey of Hope: Joe Tippens' Unconventional Cancer Protocol and Global ImpactJoe Tippens
And we're at the end here, so I'm not too concerned with toxicity. I"m thinking within a week or so, I might have to do the humane thing for him...

Hi @LisaArk , I have been following Punkin's story for the past couple of weeks. I also have a presumed IBD kitty, Bach, with gallstones and stones in the common bile duct so your story caught my attention and I decided to join. Hope Punk is doing well today.

Hi, ElissaB , I'm a musician, so I love your kitty kat's name! Punk is not having his best day...How have you been treating Bach?

 

[LisaArk]

Glad Punk is feeling sparkier!

To answer your question though, fenbendazole has been able to kill some types of cancer cells in petri dishes, but that rarely translates to real life. There is no evidence that it is useful for cancer in pets.

The anti-parasitic dose (50-100 mg/kg) might kill a few surface cancer cells along the intestinal wall, if it could even penetrate the mucus barrier. Deworming formulations aren't supposed to be absorbed, they're supposed to stay in the GI tract and directly poison the parasites (worms and flukes) sitting there.

Because it is given by mouth, it would have to reach the cancer through the bloodstream, but it is poorly bioavailable. (It can have adverse effects if it *is* absorbed, but the deworming dose is quite safe.)

From what I can determine, the risk of toxicity is much greater than any possible benefit.

@Dr. Jeff,
Hi @Dr. Jean Hofve, What about this story, of someone with lung cancer? A Journey of Hope: Joe Tippens' Unconventional Cancer Protocol and Global ImpactJoe Tippens. Also came across this -- a vet talking about fendbendazole for cancer...#5 in this article. AOL
And we're at the end here, so I'm not too concerned with toxicity. I"m thinking within a week or so, I might have to do the humane thing for him...

 

[ElissaB]

@Dr. Jeff,
Hi @Dr. Jean Hofve, What about this story, of someone with lung cancer? A Journey of Hope: Joe Tippens' Unconventional Cancer Protocol and Global ImpactJoe Tippens
And we're at the end here, so I'm not too concerned with toxicity. I"m thinking within a week or so, I might have to do the humane thing for him...

Hi, ElissaB , I'm a musician, so I love your kitty kat's name! Punk is not having his best day...How have you been treating Bach?

I'm sorry Punk's not having a great day. Sounds like he's a fighter, though. I'll send positive thoughts your way. Glad you like Bach's name. That was his name in the Facebook post I saw about 4 orange cats on the rescue only list at one of the L.A. City shelters in January 2011. I am not sure who named him but I liked the name so kept it. It suits him. Surprisingly, a lot of people don't know how to pronounce it. Bach is currently awaiting surgery (cholecystectomy or gallbladder removal, with biopsies) today as 2 of his stones are in the common bile duct causing a partial obstruction. He has been on ursodiol since Jan 2023 but it hasn't done much for the stones. Also, budesonide since diagnosis in 2022, Denamarin, Vitamin B12, and probiotics. We switched to prednisolone in late September. I also tried a fecal transplant from Animal Biome twice. Since medical management is not helping, surgery was the next step.

 

[Dr. Jean Hofve]

There are always stories of amazing cures for just about anything if you look for them. We don't know what other factors were operating in those cases, including the genetics of the cancer, the history, prior health, and genetics of the patient, and other treatments that may have been tried previously or simultaneously. Stories are, well, stories. Of course they're written in the most positive light.

For sure, we know that prayer works, and miracles happen. I won't say nothing can ever work, but in this case, the science says this particular treatment just does not work.

One oncologist said you could not physically give enough to achieve the dose used in the cell studies.

You say you're not worried about toxicity. You should be. Even if there were the slightest chance it could affect the cancer (which has never been seen in animals), the dose of fenbendazole you would have to give would-- absolutely and without a doubt--make a cat feel very sick, and could be fatal in a very miserable and distressing way. Please don't put him through that.

We are all looking for hope in this world, but the best thing you can do now is love Punk and do what makes him happy. Treats, pet-pets, head-scritchies, cuddles, play... These days, if they are the last ones, are truly a gift. Enjoy them, and him, as best as you can, in peace and love.

 

[Dr. Christina]

"What a balancing act", you said. And this is so true. Heart and mind are part of the balancing act. There are no right answers, no miracle cures, though miracles happen all the time with almost every approach. Great to collect information, then step back and really trust your heart and intuition. Is the fenbendazole treatment coming from your mind and "I want to try everything" or does it "feel" right in your heart and intuition?

Quality of life is our key at any point, even if the good times are short each day. You may want to schedule a call with Gail Pope and read her thoughts on the page, too, as she had hundreds of cats in just the place you are at.

Usually energetic treatments help maintain quality of life the longest, even if the tissue damage is not repaired, and sometimes even repairs the damage.

Dr. Christina

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Usually energetic treatments help maintain quality of life the longest, even if the tissue damage is not repaired, and sometimes even repairs the damage.

Yes!

Where there's life (and energy) there's hope.

 

[LisaArk]

"What a balancing act", you said. And this is so true. Heart and mind are part of the balancing act. There are no right answers, no miracle cures, though miracles happen all the time with almost every approach. Great to collect information, then step back and really trust your heart and intuition. Is the fenbendazole treatment coming from your mind and "I want to try everything" or does it "feel" right in your heart and intuition?

Quality of life is our key at any point, even if the good times are short each day. You may want to schedule a call with Gail Pope and read her thoughts on the page, too, as she had hundreds of cats in just the place you are at.

Usually energetic treatments help maintain quality of life the longest, even if the tissue damage is not repaired, and sometimes even repairs the damage.

Dr. Christina

@Dr. Christina @Dr. Jeff @Dr. Jean Hofve
When I got home last night, Punkin's breathing was labored. Today I had him euthanized at home. Thanks Dr. Jeff, for Melissa Shapiro's name, she was great. Punk and I hung out all night together, and of course this morning he rallied, as was his way. He ate a lot, drank some broth and was so alert, that it almost seemed crazy to go ahead, but his breathing was still not right. Better a day or too early than a day too late and have him really suffer. Thanks everyone for all your comments and energy through this journey with Punkyboy, which was a nickname of his...much appreciated. I'll sure do thing things differently from the outset with any new pet in my future. I have a lot of supplements if anyone can use them...I can list them later - I'm off to work. Thanks again.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Lisa, I'm so sorry for your loss of Punk.

 

[Dr. Jean Hofve]

Oh, no, that's so sad but he had such a great life right to the last possible minute... you gave him so much love and care! Sending hugs!!

 

[ElissaB]

Lisa, I'm very sorry. Just now seeing your update, as Bach was discharged on Monday. What a fortunate kitty Punk was to have been cared for so well by you! Do you have any favorite photos you can share (if you feel up to it)?