Greyhound peeing in house and never did before

[ChristineDG]

I have zero answers, and really don't have any money left to spend on this. I have these results below, and had this testing done bc my Rocky is behaving weird on walks, started peeing in the house at almost the same time every day (around feeding time or within 2hrs of), and seems to be sore in his back and neck.

My vet told me during the first round of testing he was Anemic, and wanted me to get xrays to rule other things out. That visit landed me at a more technologically advanced vet, for the scans. He also ran more blood work, urine, and other tests. He said this looks like early kidney failure. No one has brought up tue fact that he had blood in is urine, and none of the two vets are giving me a plan of action for the $500 plus I have spent at each vet.

What is wrong with my Rocky?

What do I do about the blood in his urine?

Is it kidney failure?

He is 7yrs old and has never gone to the bathroom in the house until the past couple of months

He goes on long walks, 3x a day

I now have to use a belly band on him in order to make sure I don't come home to urine on the floor

Please if anyone can give me answers, it would be much appreciated. I am beyond concerned, sad, and so fed up with spending all of this money to have no game plan

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hi Christine-

I'm sorry to hear about Rocky's urinary "accidents".

I'm going offline right now but will be back later and maybe @Dr. Christina @Dr. Sara or @Dr. Jean will see your question before then...

 

[Dr. Sara]

Dear Christine,
First, Rocky is not anemic. His red blood cell count is a bit high, which can be normal for a greyhound. He does have some increased young red blood cells, reticulocytes, which indicate that his body is trying to increase the number of RBCs, perhaps because he is losing some in his urine.

Rocky's BUN and creatinine, two kidney waste products, are slightly elevated. Both of these can be affected by diet, so if he is on a meat based diet, this may or may not be significant. If he is eating kibble, it is more likely to indicate a problem with the kidneys. The other kidney waste product, phosphorus, is at the top of the optimal range, which is up to 4.5, so that is acceptable. Were these blood tests taken when Rocky was fasted for 8 hours?

Rocky's urine specific gravity (USG) or concentration is 1.032. This indicates optimal collecting tubule functioning. Rocky is not losing protein in the urine. If he were, I would be more inclined to think there was significant kidney disease. In any case, kidney disease does not cause blood in the urine.

There are no crystals or bacteria seen in the urine. This makes stones or urinary tract infection less likely though they may still be present.
Dogs can have 'stones' (calculi) in the bladder which cause blood in the urine without having crystals in the urine. Stones are often (not always) seen on x-rays, they are almost always seen on ultrasound.
Most cases of bacterial urinary tract inflammation show bacteria in the urine, though this is not universal. Urine culture of a catheterized or cystocentesis (bladder tapped through the body wall) sample is best to tell if there are bacteria in the urine that are not seen on the urinalysis.

I would want to check Rocky's prostate. This is done by a vet with a simple rectal exam. Neutered males can develop prostate cancer which can cause them to have blood in the urine. The enlarged prostate can be uncomfortable, which could cause him to act weird on walks and to urinate when he has always been house trained. [Intact males develop benign prostatic enlargement which also can cause discomfort and blood in the urine.]

If the prostate palpates normally, the next step would be to determine if there are stones present with an x-ray or ultrasound.
In the meantime, consider walking Rocky on a harness so he can't accidentally put extra pressure on his neck and cause more discomfort.
Sometimes discomfort in one part of the body (bladder) can cause discomfort in other parts (back / neck), especially if he is holding himself differently due to discomfort
I hope this is helpful!
Dr. Sara

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hi again Christine-

Thanks so much Dr. Sara for your wonderful reply to Christine before I got back to the forum.

1. What's wrong? IMHO, the underlying issue is an imbalanced vitality.

2. Can you see visible blood? You shouldn't based on just this microscopic result of 2 RBCs/hpf which is within normal. FYI- hpf = "high power field" which means that his urine is highly magnified under the microscope.

3. Probably not, based in the urine concentration and lack of protein (as Dr. Sara mentioned).

Do you have any earlier blood test results so we can see what his "normal" kidney values are?

You might also want to consult with Dr. Dodds at hemopet.org as she is a Greyhound blood test expert.

BTW-It would be very helpful to see a copy of the specialist vet's report. If you want to upload it here, I'd love to see if it gives us any other clues.

 

[Dr. Sara]

Ah, Christine, I thought that you were seeing blood in the urine, not simply this small amount on the urinalysis. As Dr. Jeff, notes, this amount can be within normal range
I would still suggest a prostate check, as you want to rule that out as a problem with any male having abnormal urination.
After that, I would be concerned that neck or back pain are contributing to the urinary accidents.
As Dr. Jeff said, an underlying vitality imbalance can contribute to multiple apparently unrelated symptoms. This is why lab values when Rocky'svitality was normal can be so helpful, as they show us if the increased BUN and creatinine is truly a change from normal, or if it has been present all along.
Dr. Sara

 

[GinnyW]

I strongly support the recommendation of consulting Dr. Dodds at Hemopet. If you can spend anything at all, this will get you answers - she is the world's best. I'm not a vet, but I agree with all said, and feel this can be resolved fairly easily.

 

[ChristineDG]

Ah, Christine, I thought that you were seeing blood in the urine, not simply this small amount on the urinalysis. As Dr. Jeff, notes, this amount can be within normal range
I would still suggest a prostate check, as you want to rule that out as a problem with any male having abnormal urination.
After that, I would be concerned that neck or back pain are contributing to the urinary accidents.
As Dr. Jeff said, an underlying vitality imbalance can contribute to multiple apparently unrelated symptoms. This is why lab values when Rocky'svitality was normal can be so helpful, as they show us if the increased BUN and creatinine is truly a change from normal, or if it has been present all along.
Dr. Sara

@Dr. Jeff

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ke4a8_AlQT2_3se7xHrr8LHTx7kTf5Wh/view?usp=drivesdk

Thank you all for the replies! Idk of this link works, but please let me know if you can view it. This is his entire file since we owned him

 

[Dr. Jeff]

You're welcome, Christine.?

 

[Dr. Sara]

The link requires access. Do you have any previous lab test results or reports that you can scan and post?

 

[ChristineDG]

The link requires access. Do you have any previous lab test results or reports that you can scan and post?

This is everything I have. His weight has fluctuated a good amount since he came home in 2018....idk if that matters.

 

[ChristineDG]

I strongly support the recommendation of consulting Dr. Dodds at Hemopet. If you can spend anything at all, this will get you answers - she is the world's best. I'm not a vet, but I agree with all said, and feel this can be resolved fairly easily.

I did submit a request for an online consult, thank you guys for the suggestion!

 

[Dr. Sara]

Rocky has the typical high hematocrit and increased red blood cells seen in greyhounds - that is not an issue.
His creatinine and BUN have been increased or at the top of the range since June 2020, so that is not a change for him. That makes it less likely that it is significant now.
I don't see a urinalysis for comparison.
I believe your boy's problems are:
1 - Urine accidents in the house, at meal time or within two hours
2 - Odd behaviour on walks (What do you mean by that?)
3 - Apparent back and neck pain (How is he showing that?)
The prostate should always be checked when adult males (neutered or intact) have a urinary problem.
All three problems could be related. We don't have enough information to know.
Is Rocky still on thyroid hormone? If so, has he had a test 4 to 6 hours post-pill to assess that the dose is correct?

 

[ChristineDG]

Rocky has the typical high hematocrit and increased red blood cells seen in greyhounds - that is not an issue.
His creatinine and BUN have been increased or at the top of the range since June 2020, so that is not a change for him. That makes it less likely that it is significant now.
I don't see a urinalysis for comparison.
I believe your boy's problems are:
1 - Urine accidents in the house, at meal time or within two hours (it's even happening when we leave the house for a few hours, unrelated to food. He seems to pace a lot and looks like he cannot get comfortable)
2 - Odd behaviour on walks (What do you mean by that?) (he seems to go into a trance a lot, his head is always hanging low, we have to force him to walk most days, he gets tired and pants within 10mins of walking. He also has DJD is a few of his toes, they are very swollen and seem to keep growing which might be causing him pain)
3 - Apparent back and neck pain (How is he showing that?) (he bites at his waist a lot, or shoots up out of his sleep and stares at his rear or waist, I say neck but it could be shoulder area where the pain is, I will upload the recent xrays, my vet says arthritis can be seen in a few of the scans)
The prostate should always be checked when adult males (neutered or intact) have a urinary problem. (never has any vet I have taken him to, checked his prostate. I will make sure this happens in the near future)
All three problems could be related. We don't have enough information to know.
Is Rocky still on thyroid hormone? (rocky is not on any form of thyroid medicine. We made sure to get the results from Michigan as a greyhound specialist remotely reviewed the results, saying we didn't need to give medicine, do you feel I should retest that?)If so, has he had a test 4 to 6 hours post-pill to assess that the dose is correct?

 

[ChristineDG]

 

[ChristineDG]

 

[Dr. Sara]

Dear Christine,
Dr. Dodds is definitely the go-to for assessing thyroid hormone test results. These results are over two years old, so it would make good sense to repeat them. Low thyroid function can contribute to many problems.

There are some arthritic areas in the digits. Arthritic toes can be quite painful. I don't see any significant arthritic areas in the back, but perhaps there is something I can't see.

I don't see calculi (stones) in the bladder, though the stool in the colon could be obscuring that.

Rocky's behaviour sounds like he is uncomfortable. Have the vets observed this behaviour? This discomfort could be related to the joints or the urinary system / prostate. A vet should be able to determine if the back / neck is sensitive by palpation. If urine is passing slowly because of a blockage for some cause (growth, stone, enlarged prostate) that can cause dogs to leak once the bladder has enough pressure to get past the blockage. If Rocky is painful in his back because of subluxations (which don't show on x-rays), he could be unwilling / unable to assume a normal urination posture, so he is dribbling when he is unavoidably full.

At this point, you do need a holistically minded vet to provide a thorough exam. It is possible that a vet chiropractor would be a good choice, as they could also make sure the prostate is normal. They would be able to adjust his joints if subluxations are causing pain and energy blockage.

Sorry to drone on about the prostate - in our practice, there were several instances where no one checked the prostate in a neutered male with urination problems, and when we checked, it was found to be cancerous. Neutered males are more prone to prostate cancer, and I would like to eliminate that from the list of Rocky's possible problems as soon as possible.
I hope this helps,
Dr. Sara

 

[ChristineDG]

Dear Christine,
Dr. Dodds is definitely the go-to for assessing thyroid hormone test results. These results are over two years old, so it would make good sense to repeat them. Low thyroid function can contribute to many problems.

There are some arthritic areas in the digits. Arthritic toes can be quite painful. I don't see any significant arthritic areas in the back, but perhaps there is something I can't see.

I don't see calculi (stones) in the bladder, though the stool in the colon could be obscuring that.

Rocky's behaviour sounds like he is uncomfortable. Have the vets observed this behaviour? This discomfort could be related to the joints or the urinary system / prostate. A vet should be able to determine if the back / neck is sensitive by palpation. If urine is passing slowly because of a blockage for some cause (growth, stone, enlarged prostate) that can cause dogs to leak once the bladder has enough pressure to get past the blockage. If Rocky is painful in his back because of subluxations (which don't show on x-rays), he could be unwilling / unable to assume a normal urination posture, so he is dribbling when he is unavoidably full.

At this point, you do need a holistically minded vet to provide a thorough exam. It is possible that a vet chiropractor would be a good choice, as they could also make sure the prostate is normal. They would be able to adjust his joints if subluxations are causing pain and energy blockage.

Sorry to drone on about the prostate - in our practice, there were several instances where no one checked the prostate in a neutered male with urination problems, and when we checked, it was found to be cancerous. Neutered males are more prone to prostate cancer, and I would like to eliminate that from the list of Rocky's possible problems as soon as possible.
I hope this helps,
Dr. Sara

Thank you so much for the info!!!

 

[Cyd]

Hi Christine, I'm so sorry you & Rocky are going through this experience. As a dog parent, Ive been there many a time especially the increased worry & frustration of expensive vet visits & still not any closer to a diagnosis. I definitely think a chiropractor is an excellent idea, I would actually want a TCM/acupuncture trained vet. The reason is because I'm focusing on the neck & back pain issue, the bladder meridian starts on the face & travels down each side of the spine to the feet. I think if a vertebral subluxation or blockage of chi, particularly along the bladder meridian could be properly identified by palpation (save $$, No special equipment needed!) it may give you some clues to help pinpoint the problem. Also TCM fundamental principles lie in the interconnectedness of the 5 elements that govern the major body systems, so a diagnosis can be logically (in my mind) be explained by evaluating Rocky's pulse, tongue & other details to explain the reason for the symptoms. Before the fancy tests & equipment were developed, TCM practitioners relied on only their sense of touch, patient details & other senses of observation to diagnose. Humans often present with incontinence or constipation when something in their back is out of alignment & with all of the bumps & scrapes most of us endure starting from being kids or athletic dogs, I think most living creatures have some level of subluxation that the body usually adapts to, but then when the mis-alignments or blockages are not eventually treated & corrected, over time, sometimes its a minor incident, i.e. bending over to put on one's shoes, the accumulated, untreated issues make themselves known in ways that are much harder to ignore.
If you are unfamiliar with TCM/Vet acupuncture, I strongly recommend Cheryl Schwartz's 4 PAWS 5 DIRECTIONS, she takes a complex topic & breaks it down to make it interesting to learn the basic principles & has in depth explanations of the meridians. It would give you a better understanding should you decide to look into TCM for Rocky.

 

[ChristineDG]

Hi Christine, I'm so sorry you & Rocky are going through this experience. As a dog parent, Ive been there many a time especially the increased worry & frustration of expensive vet visits & still not any closer to a diagnosis. I definitely think a chiropractor is an excellent idea, I would actually want a TCM/acupuncture trained vet. The reason is because I'm focusing on the neck & back pain issue, the bladder meridian starts on the face & travels down each side of the spine to the feet. I think if a vertebral subluxation or blockage of chi, particularly along the bladder meridian could be properly identified by palpation (save $$, No special equipment needed!) it may give you some clues to help pinpoint the problem. Also TCM fundamental principles lie in the interconnectedness of the 5 elements that govern the major body systems, so a diagnosis can be logically (in my mind) be explained by evaluating Rocky's pulse, tongue & other details to explain the reason for the symptoms. Before the fancy tests & equipment were developed, TCM practitioners relied on only their sense of touch, patient details & other senses of observation to diagnose. Humans often present with incontinence or constipation when something in their back is out of alignment & with all of the bumps & scrapes most of us endure starting from being kids or athletic dogs, I think most living creatures have some level of subluxation that the body usually adapts to, but then when the mis-alignments or blockages are not eventually treated & corrected, over time, sometimes its a minor incident, i.e. bending over to put on one's shoes, the accumulated, untreated issues make themselves known in ways that are much harder to ignore.
If you are unfamiliar with TCM/Vet acupuncture, I strongly recommend Cheryl Schwartz's 4 PAWS 5 DIRECTIONS, she takes a complex topic & breaks it down to make it interesting to learn the basic principles & has in depth explanations of the meridians. It would give you a better understanding should you decide to look into TCM for Rocky.

Thank you for the info!! I myself LOVE Traditional Chinese Medicine, I wish I could access a legit practitioner in Wichita KS for myself. Being from NY, I always had access to the best. I see Dr. Beth at Natural Pet Care Center in El Dorado, but it seems she left me hanging this past visit, and after receiving the additional test results I obtained from another vet per her request.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hi Christine-

I'm sorry to hear that your last vet visit was not as great as usual.

If you want to upload Ricky's recent test results here, I'll be happy to take a look at them
.
Dr. Dodds can do this as well if you'd prefer to email the pdf to her and ask.