@Dr. Jeff I have a bottle of Heel Arnica PC. Do you suggest the boiron brand. The Heel brand has magnesium stearate in it which I don't like. I thought the old BHI Heel formulas did not have this excipient so that is why I was asking if you prefer the boiron brand.... I believe his injury on his front leg is better. However his sagging and weakness from the acupuncture on Aug 12th has not resolved. I guess I will address that in a different post because we went to the vet again last thursday. Thank you...!
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Acupuncture gone wrong
- Thread starter LilF
- Start date
JJ went to the holistic vet on thursday. I tried to ask her about JJ's adverse effect to the acupuncture and that he was doing well prior to it, without the sagging and splaying. Actually this sagging and splaying is so much worse than he has ever done. And he has not done anything close to it since about May after his adequan series. She kept deflecting my questions and would say about how I should raise the bowl and how hard it is on his back.... I guess it is only hard on his back after August 12th when he got the treatment. Then she said about how fat he is. I told her that he is unable to walk now like he was. Again, no address of why the acupuncture affected him like this and what to do about it other than raise the bowl. I wanted to know from her if the treatment could be reversed. She did do a hand held laser treatment which did not do anything for his hind end. ( I felt this was a band aid and did not address the cause) BTW, is there a difference between the small hand held and the larger class IV laser? I felt he did better in the past with the large laser versus the small hand held. So I was researching some things on acupuncture and was on the IVAS site and saw my vet was not certified in anything. I did see a vet with a CHI certification in my area and thought I should go to her. I guess I want to know can the treatment he had on Aug 12th be reversed. Was it a case of the energy going in the wrong direction or blocked. Can another vet possibly unblock or redirect the energy back to where he was before Aug 12th? Now when he is standing he is sagging at times, not just when eating. I'm getting the feeling my vet does not do much self education on her own time and not having a certification is eye opening and maybe explains why BOTH dogs limped when she would do acupuncture. Can vets do acupuncture if they are not credentialed??? This would surprise me. My gut feeling is to get the other certified veterinary acupuncturist's opinion on what is going on with JJ. Obviously I am still upset that I let her do the acupuncture when he was doing well. I have to turn away when I see him sagging or splaying. Thank You
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Morning Lil!
Thanks for italicizing your questions so I didnt miss any.
1. Yes, his energy can improve and get further balanced. Reversing the other treatment is not really needed but what does need to be reversed is JJ's response to the treatment. You can start helping his body build this energy right way!
2. There are differences in types and classes of lasers. This presentation may be helpful:
3. Yes! Depending on his body's ability to heal, he can get back to where he was.
4. Yes, any vet can do acupuncture, prescribe homeopathy or drugs. The only required training is vet school. Continual education, practice and observation helps us hone our skills.
I agree about consulting with a TCVM and acupuncture specialist!
Thanks for italicizing your questions so I didnt miss any.
1. Yes, his energy can improve and get further balanced. Reversing the other treatment is not really needed but what does need to be reversed is JJ's response to the treatment. You can start helping his body build this energy right way!
2. There are differences in types and classes of lasers. This presentation may be helpful:
3. Yes! Depending on his body's ability to heal, he can get back to where he was.
4. Yes, any vet can do acupuncture, prescribe homeopathy or drugs. The only required training is vet school. Continual education, practice and observation helps us hone our skills.
I agree about consulting with a TCVM and acupuncture specialist!
Hi Dr. Jeff, I'm laughing at your noticing my italicized questions 
I do that because I jump around a lot and want to make sure the key concerns don't get lost in the soup.... Thanks for addressing. I know you are a practitioner of homeopathy and I think I hear you saying that would be one way to return JJ as much as possible to his previous condition. Is there anything else? When the vet does laser she doesn't give the dogs glasses unless she is using the larger class IV laser and even with that, when I bring Gabby and she is laying down in the room, she doesn't give her protective eyewear. No protective eyewear for anyone using the handheld laser either. I am excited that I may have found another vet in the area who lists alternative care and the acupuncture, laser etc.... I am telling you this because there are some other things that are red flags to me with my current holistic vet: The dogs get the Vit D test and supplementation. I read the lab report and it states to retest every 2 months. I have told this to the vet the last 2 appointments and she still is saying every 4 months in spite of the correction. I also asked for the A1C test to be done per Dr. Karen Becker article I read. My vet said the dogs get the CRP test and that is the same thing. I knew from human testing it is NOT the same. So I am starting to feel REAL uncomfortable with her treating my dogs. I do not feel she does anything outside of her work schedule to learn or research. IF she doesn't keep up she should retire. If I ask about a supplement she says she doesn't know. So we may be terminating her if the new vet works out. I do need access to certain testing as above. I need a vet like all of YOU who DO care and ARE knowledgeable and DO answer questions fully. Thank you all.
I do that because I jump around a lot and want to make sure the key concerns don't get lost in the soup.... Thanks for addressing. I know you are a practitioner of homeopathy and I think I hear you saying that would be one way to return JJ as much as possible to his previous condition. Is there anything else? When the vet does laser she doesn't give the dogs glasses unless she is using the larger class IV laser and even with that, when I bring Gabby and she is laying down in the room, she doesn't give her protective eyewear. No protective eyewear for anyone using the handheld laser either. I am excited that I may have found another vet in the area who lists alternative care and the acupuncture, laser etc.... I am telling you this because there are some other things that are red flags to me with my current holistic vet: The dogs get the Vit D test and supplementation. I read the lab report and it states to retest every 2 months. I have told this to the vet the last 2 appointments and she still is saying every 4 months in spite of the correction. I also asked for the A1C test to be done per Dr. Karen Becker article I read. My vet said the dogs get the CRP test and that is the same thing. I knew from human testing it is NOT the same. So I am starting to feel REAL uncomfortable with her treating my dogs. I do not feel she does anything outside of her work schedule to learn or research. IF she doesn't keep up she should retire. If I ask about a supplement she says she doesn't know. So we may be terminating her if the new vet works out. I do need access to certain testing as above. I need a vet like all of YOU who DO care and ARE knowledgeable and DO answer questions fully. Thank you all.
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I'm sorry that you are losing confidence in your vet, and thanks for having myself and the other HA! faculty on your vet care team. It's an honor and pleasure to help you make more mindful medical decisions.
Yes, whether it's a vet homeopath or practitioner of traditional Chinese vet med, JJ and Gabby definitely deserve to work with a well-trained and experienced vet that answers your questions.
Yes, whether it's a vet homeopath or practitioner of traditional Chinese vet med, JJ and Gabby definitely deserve to work with a well-trained and experienced vet that answers your questions.
Good News Everyone... at least I hope. I talked to the vet I found who is certified in acupuncture, about JJ. She does laser and laser guided acupuncture or just acupuncture. We have an appointment in a few weeks. She said her treatments are based on the dog's reactions. So it sounds like she monitors the treatment as she does it which at least in theory sounds great. She says she doesn't use a lot of needles if the dog is not responding and may only use a few if the dog is going off the wall (my interpretation of her explanation). So I did not mention about the other vet and that the current problem is from that. I hope it doesn't matter but don't want to get anyone's hackles up. This vet seems like maybe she assesses the dog uniquely versus just doing a one size fits all. I hope it works out. Will keep you posted.
@Dr. Jeff I purchased some Arnica pellets but they only had 6c....I have 5 ml plastic syringes that I usually dissolve the tea relief into and then inject into his mouth. So please tell me in a 5ml syringe, for pain relief, how many 6c pellets would I put in there? How many times a day would I do this. Is it different for an acute injury versus chronic pain relief. I am sorry to be such a stupey duck about homeopathy applied. Thank You!
Wanted to update on JJ.... We went to the NEW vet yesterday who does acupuncture. and who is certified, and I was very impressed. She spent time evaluating JJ and said he was more Yin than Yang. She said because he is Yin that she would use the laser pinpoint (which I had never heard of)instead of the needle acupuncture because Yin dogs typically fuss over needles (with the other vet I complain about a lot here, she used needles) . She explained a lot of things specific to JJ.... I always appreciate information. The other vet would also elicit a yelp in JJ when she was stretching out his hips and this vet 's technique never did that. She showed me 3 massage techniques to help his spine. I really noted the difference in interest between her and the prior vet who was NOT certified. So glad I looked around on the internet to find someone in my area. She does not really do the blood testing the other vet does, i.e. for Vitamin D. Some vets don't see the importance of Vitamin D but I feel it is important so will keep the other vet for this testing but not hands on for either of my dogs at this point. This vet I believe offers more continuity of service and seemed to care. She appeared to always be updating her level of skill per the things she was telling me. So we will stick with her and maybe even bring in my other dog Gabby who limps on her front legs (especially after the other vet did acupuncture on her :-((( Thanks for all your support. everyone and all the detailed replies for JJ (and Gabby)
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Great news Lil about your new vet!
Regarding the Arnica, I usually dissolve 1 pellet in 8 oz. of water and succuss (whack the cup against the counter) 10x prior to dipping a Q-tip in the solution and touching it to his gums.
At a 6c potency then maybe try this 2-3x a day depending on his response.
However you may want to wait a day or two prior to dosing so you can evaluate the effects of the acupuncture.
Regarding the Arnica, I usually dissolve 1 pellet in 8 oz. of water and succuss (whack the cup against the counter) 10x prior to dipping a Q-tip in the solution and touching it to his gums.
At a 6c potency then maybe try this 2-3x a day depending on his response.
However you may want to wait a day or two prior to dosing so you can evaluate the effects of the acupuncture.
