Supplements for cats

[merrynb]

Dr Jeff, you have mentioned that cats need calcium and taurine supplemented on a raw food diet, and also that these should be provided in a variety of forms.

Can you suggest/recommend different ways of supplementing these?

And any other worthwhile supplements to consider for cats?

many thanks

from Merryn

 

 

[Dr. Jeff]

There are many! One quick answer is Alnutrin.

Though actually Merryn, this depends on the exact context of the diet.

For example, what exactly do you mean by the raw diet.

And I see now that I need to start our live Empower Hour! Let's discuss this further tonight.

Dr. Jeff

 

 

[merrynb]

Well, my cats are eating 95% raw minced beef (lean), with a little sheep's heart and kidney here and there, and a little bit of minced veges (cabbage, carrot, beetroot). With sprinklings of dulse and Hawaiian spirulina. But mostly raw lean beef (thawed).

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hey Merryn-

Does the beef include bone or organs?

If not, and in lieu of other variety in the kitty's diet (do they hunt and eat their prey?), I would consider adding a balanced supplement.

Which products are readily (and affordably) available in NZ?

Dr. Jeff

 

 

[merrynb]

No, the beef is just muscle meat. And they don't usually eat what they catch. I could probably get some more organ meat from the local butcher. What should I request? How small should any bone be ground up?

I looked up the supplement you mentioned, and it contained calcium from eggshells and limestone. I'm thinking I could probably source/prepare and add these myself. What do you think?

To be honest, I have no idea what's available locally re supplements. I could do some homework on that. I get my own supplements via iherb mostly - I will have a look to see if they have any supplements for cats

 

[merrynb]

Ok, here is what I found on iherb:

Life Extension, Cat Mix, Advanced Multi-Nutrient Formula, 3.52 oz (100 g)

Ark Naturals, Nu-Pet Feline Granular, For Cats, 5.29 oz (150 g) (Discontinued Item)

This one has some dodgy ingredients:

The Missing Link, Ultimate Feline Formula, For Cats, 6 oz (170 g)

There was another one with very bad ingredients, which I haven't linked to

I also wondered about diacetamous earth as a source of calcium. Did you ever talk to Anthony about DE for pets? It's not good for humans but he's mentioned that it's ok for some animals, as they have tougher digestive tracts. Not sure about cats and dogs

What do you think about the supplements above?

 

[Dr. Jeff]

I generally really like Life Extension supplements but wonder about the egg and tilapia sources?

This is also concerning: "This product contains a chemical known to the State of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm."

See if you could find out more about those two things.

The other two are OK, but low in taurine.

DE for calcium? No.

Use organic eggshells or Animal Essentials seaweed calcium.

Dr. Jeff

 

[Dr. Christina]

Merryn,

What a wonderful adventure you are on now! Feeding fresh food can be so much fun and your cats will so love you and benefit from it. I have only a short time now to reply and will do more later today or tomorrow.

Definitely research your local sources. Most importantly shift your thinking from "How specifically do I feed" to "how do I approximate what they would eat in the wild?"

Next, keep reminding yourself that there is no one right answer for any person or animal's diet. There are some basics and then it is a matter of what works for you and for your cats. Variety can help. As with diet opinions for people, there are many conflicting views for feeding cats and dogs - all meat/no meat - vegetables - grains - supplements - etc.

A few specific answers to your questions, then will get back to you with more links.

In the wild, cats do not have a grinder, and their teeth and jaws are designed for crunching bones and gnawing, ripping and tearing big hunks, so feeding ground meat is not ideal (though I know cats who have thrived on that). Until you are comfortable with feeding raw meaty bones, you can get ground bone for calcium as it is a nice combination of phosphorus, calcium and other minerals. Some sources make this very complicated with figuring CA ratios. The easy answer is to rotate your calcium sources until you start feeding raw meaty bones.

1. Freeze-dried Bone: Microcrystalline Calcium Hydroxyapatite (MCHA) comes from...Yes! New Zealand!!! (and Australian sources.

2. Finely ground eggshells. Organic, as Dr. Jeff said. You certainly can easily grind your own. I use a coffee grinder when for some reason I am not feeding meaty bones. If not local organic eggs there may be a wax coating that you need to heat off in the oven or they will not grind finely.

3. I also like animal essentials CA from seaweed that Dr. Jeff mentioned.

More later.

4. DE can be used in some cases for parasite control. It is not a source of calcium.

 

[merrynb]

Thanks Dr Christina : )

Dr Jeff, I received this response from Life Extension re their Cat Mix:

"We apologize for any alarm that that you have experienced after seeing the warning on the Cat Mix.

The reason why this warning is listed on the label is because it is a government requirement due to California’s Proposition 65 (“the Safe Drinking Water and Toxics Enforcement Act”). This act mandates that a single daily serving of a dietary supplement must not exceed 0.5 micrograms of lead (Pb). If the Pb content of a dietary supplement exceeds this threshold, the California enactment requires that the supplement must bear a warning on its label stating that “This product contains a chemical known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects, or other reproductive harm.”

However, it is important to keep in mind that ALL naturally occurring ingredients (i.e. botanical extracts and minerals) contain naturally occurring lead. If there are any botanical extracts and/or minerals in supplements, there may be miniscule amounts of lead in them. Thus, it is unlikely that side effects are a concern with the product with proper use. We would also not be able to remove the ingredients from the Cat Mix that contribute to this warning, because it is likely due to multiple ingredients. We do not expect it to harm the cat.

California’s requirements for dietary supplements are far below the rigid standards set by other scientific organizations.

Many foods also contain levels of lead that exceed the Proposition 65 threshold. To put things into perspective, a single serving (one cup or 230 grams) of grapefruit contains approximately 5.98 mcg of lead, which exceeds the proposition 65 limit by nearly 12 times. One cup of cooked rice (one serving or 46.25 gram raw rice) contains about 2.17 mcg of Pb, which is more than 3-fold higher than the Proposition 65 threshold. A 90-gram serving of shrimp (about 5 large shrimp) can contain as much as 18.9 mcg of Pb, which is 37-times greater than the Proposition 65 limit. Following this logic, one serving of either grapefruit, rice, or shrimp, according to Proposition 65, “contains a chemical known to the State of California to cause birth defects or reproductive toxicity.”

Proposition 65 has been the center of controversy since its enactment. In fact, the attorneys largely responsible for pushing the rule through the state legislature have opportunistically used the regulation as grounds for dubious lawsuits against manufacturers of dietary supplements. These attorneys have been dubbed “bounty hunters” for their approach to manipulating legislation for personal financial windfall.

Life Extension strongly supports rigid quality standards in dietary supplements. It also applauds California for making an extra effort to protect its residents. However, California’s Prop 65 legislation is perplexing and not consistent with information from well know scientific organizations. In theory, California’s Proposition 65 was established to protect consumers from exposure to toxins. Regrettably, instead of protecting consumers, it has turned into a prize for “bounty hunter” attorneys that are skilled at manipulating legislation for enormous monetary gain.

We apologize, but the eggs are not organic. We will consult with our Product Development department regarding whether it is free range and what conditions the eggs are produced in. Please allow up to two weeks to obtain a response."

 

[merrynb]

Also, they wanted to know what we want to know about the tilapia - what should I ask specifically?

I'm also unclear why additional taurine is needed on a raw food diet? Shouldn't they get it from the meat?

thanks again

from Merryn

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Regarding the Tilapia source Merryn, the biggest question is whether they are farmed and if so, are they raised without anti-biotics and hormones. Perhaps they'll even tell you the specific source. If not, where are they caught (most Tilapia in the US is farm raised and can be chemical laden).

Most of the cat supplements will indeed contain taurine though as you said, the raw meat eaters don't need it. However, that's still not the majority of cats out there.

And considering that there are lots of problems from insufficient taurine but adding it is relatively inexpensive and safe, most companies choose to add it.

Dr. Jeff

 

[JoannC]

I have a question on calcium. Recently I learned that maybe eggshell calcium is not as easily absorbed than calcium citrate. Can anyone address this?

For homecooked diets, using boneless meats and organ, slow cooking retaining all juices, adding calcium and a whole food probiotic and enzyme from NWC called Total Biotics and Total Zymes, the philosophy from the company is that the enzymes allow all nutrients to be absorbed, so adding more vitamins and minerals is not necessary. I was adding RX essentials for cats. Is that a correct statement. Or maybe since B vitamins are so important, add B vit, taurine and Ca (confused over what type to use).

It is very difficult to know what to do when there is so much co flicking information out there.  Would I create a deficiency if I did this, or should I try rotating probiotics/enzymes with meat and then no probiotics/enzymes and give vitamins.  Thank you!

 

[JoannC]

Any comments would be appreciated.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hi JoAnn-

Yes, the calcium absorption question can be confusing.

That being said, eggshell calcium is fine to use.

You don't need to worry about other deficiencies if you use Rx Essentials for Cats.

Alnutrin is another helpful supplement designed just for fresh fed kitties.