Question re prescription Denmarin. Are there safe and effective alternatives that do not need to be given with food?

[Jean Messeih]

1. Create one forum thread per pet. If you have more than one case, create a thread for each animal.
2. Your pet's name. Benny. Adopted by me (along w. his wife and son) on June 9th 2023
3. Approximate age. 13
4. Sex. M
5. Neutering status. Neutered
6. Breed. Pomeranian
7. Approximate weight 13lbs 7oz
8. What's their BEAM (behavior, energy, appetite, mood). Good x4
9. Diet. Organic Organix sweet potato and chicken brand ”kibble” with dried: Hawaian Spirulina, wild blueberry powder, cilantro, barley grass juice powder, Dulse flakes + chicken or raw ground beef or dried beef cubes as toppers
10. Vaccination history / exposure to toxins, other medication. Hx respiratory allergies - on meds at adoption. No allergy meds since, despite daily cough. Heart worm meds + Flea tick toxins + Vaxxed yearly prior to my adopting him ( and his wife and son) in June 2023. None 2023. Neurological issues noted 3 days post adoption (I suspected s/e of allergy meds, so delayed taking him to Vet hoping he’d improve ). Took to allopathic vet 15 June 2023: Dx with EC; and on 18th June dx by a different vet with inflamed (+ sludgy) gall bladder and pancreas. Was treated with enrofloxacin, amoxicillin-clavanulate and metronidazole approx 12-14 days in June. Was on bland diet of scrambled eggs n (white basmatI rice) approx 15 days. Took ursodiol approx 1month. Denmarin started on 19 Jul (for life) once ursodiol finished on 18 Jul. Once labs improved somewhat started on doxycycline P.O. x30 days. Last dose today 16 Aug 2023
11. Primary problem, when it began and if there was anything else happening around that time. I saw a lab showing that he had EC back in 2022. No treatment. Don’t know why not. Liver/gallbladde/pancreas issue started within a week of adoption. He’d been happy at his foster home for 10 months until suddenly he (they) were given to a pet transport service. They must have felt confused, betrayed and abandoned. Their loving foster parents were in tears at giving them up, and I was in tears thinking of the loss they all sustained. Apparently they’d belonged to someone for 10years who moved and was unable to keep them. Then they lived outdoors for 2 years with a family member until they were surrendered in Aug 2022.
12. Is the condition better or worse from exercise, heat, cold, time of day, certain foods, emotional upset, being touched, excitement, etc? Don’t know
13. Has any diagnostic work been done? Diagnosis if available (you can attach your diagnostic tests to the post if you have them). On 19thJune his ALP 903U/L, was 251 U/L on 1st Jul and WNL on 19th July. Hct and platelets low in June, By 1st Aug, CBC WNL. I’ll have to send an email with all attachments if I can get scanner to work I don’t know how to get the paperwork onto my iPad.
14. Current and previous treatment
15. Other health concerns. Right now, his GB/Li/pancreatic issue is my major concern. He refuses to take his 1/4tab of Denmarin so I have to force it down his throat- we are both unhappy about that. Presumably Denmarin is a pharmaceutical amendment to silymarin. I’d like to know of alternatives please, plus any comments/suggestions for his Li issue and/or his respiratory allergy

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hey Jean!

Welcome to HA! and I am super sorry to hear about Benny's health challenges. ?

You wrote that he did not have any vaccines by the rescue from which you adopted him?? I ask because vaccination is often a trigger for many dis-eases.

What does EC stand for?

I’d like to know of alternatives please, plus any comments/suggestions for his Li issue and/or his respiratory allergy

OMG, there are many suggestions including a whole other road for you to follow with him!

To start, read the HA! 101 course which will introduce you to the vitality and balance approach of energy flow. And maybe even help you transition him to a fresh food diet from the Organix.

Here's a bit more about the wellness seen from going down this road less travelled:

The Return to Wholeness and Homeostasis

As the legacy of Decartes comes to an end, the principle of dynamic equilibrium is being rediscovered and gaining prominence in veterinary medicine.

www.holisticactions.com

The Happiness Protocol in Your Pet's Life

At HA! we are committed to much more than helping pets become dis-ease free. We promote restoring and maintaining vitality, balance, energy, & happiness.

www.holisticactions.com

To answer your questions tho, I use Hepato TruBenefits, Hepato Support and Respiratory tonic:

Hepato TruBenefits For Dogs | Veterinarian Recommended Solutions

VRS' Hepato is easily administered with food to support normal cleansing of the liver from impurities. Click here to learn more & order your supply today!

vrshealth.com

Respiratory Tonic for Dogs and Cats

We provide the finest respiratory tonic for canines and felines. Enjoy more organic, whole food supplements and herbal remedies by visiting The Pet Health and Nutrition Center - a leader in the natural pet marketplace!

pethealthandnutritioncenter.com

 

[Dr. Christina]

First, thank you for adopting a family of 3 dogs. Hopefully the other 2 are healthier. As you study the 101 health course, you can evaluate them for any early clues to internal imbalance.

And that is the difference in approach from conventional to holistic - our goal is to support the body in resolving its symptoms by improving vitality and internal balance. Dr. Jeff suggested a few, and the course and searching the web site will give you a lot more. At this point you are looking for holistic replacements for the chemical drugs, which can be helpful.

More important, while you are taking the time to learn (and it is a big learning curve) about all the many things you can do for all life in your home, is to begin working with one or more holistic veterinarians who can get Benny back on the right path while you are learning and researching. Read this entire article, check out all the web sites, remembering that if none are near you, homeopathic veterinarians can help you by phone.

Where do you live?

Dr. Christina

 

[Jean Messeih]

Hey Jean!

Welcome to HA! and I am super sorry to hear about Benny's health challenges. ?

You wrote that he did not have any vaccines by the rescue from which you adopted him?? I ask because vaccination is often a trigger for many dis-eases.

What does EC stand for?

OMG, there are many suggestions including a whole other road for you to follow with him!

To start, read the HA! 101 course which will introduce you to the vitality and balance approach of energy flow. And maybe even help you transition him to a fresh food diet from the Organix.

Here's a bit more about the wellness seen from going down this road less travelled:

The Return to Wholeness and Homeostasis

As the legacy of Decartes comes to an end, the principle of dynamic equilibrium is being rediscovered and gaining prominence in veterinary medicine.

www.holisticactions.com

The Happiness Protocol in Your Pet's Life

At HA! we are committed to much more than helping pets become dis-ease free. We promote restoring and maintaining vitality, balance, energy, & happiness.

www.holisticactions.com

To answer your questions tho, I use Hepato TruBenefits, Hepato Support and Respiratory tonic:

Hepato TruBenefits For Dogs | Veterinarian Recommended Solutions

VRS' Hepato is easily administered with food to support normal cleansing of the liver from impurities. Click here to learn more & order your supply today!

vrshealth.com

Respiratory Tonic for Dogs and Cats

We provide the finest respiratory tonic for canines and felines. Enjoy more organic, whole food supplements and herbal remedies by visiting The Pet Health and Nutrition Center - a leader in the natural pet marketplace!

pethealthandnutritioncenter.com

Sorry to confuse you Dr Jeff. Benny DID get vaccines, heart worm meds and flea and tick deterrent toxins at the rescue in Aug 2022. I meant to say that I have given none to him and don’t intend to

EC = ehrlichia canis. My vet in PA had never encountered it up here in PA, but apparently it requires the same treatment as Lymes Disease, thus the one month of doxycycline which finished today. I had thought of asking your advice re herbal alternatives but didn’t get round to it

I also forgot to say that I put powdered seasonal support (to increase their resistance to fleas n ticks), powdered probiotics, and powdered fermented food on their meals daily. I get these items from mercola.com; also the dehydrated beef cubes
If I recall from listening to Medical Medium, Anthony William on SoundCloud a few years ago, he does not advocate fermented foods for humans. So I’d be curious to see what you think

Thank you very much for your recommendation. I’ll look into them next

 

[Jean Messeih]

Sorry to confuse you Dr Jeff. Benny DID get vaccines, heart worm meds and flea and tick deterrent toxins at the rescue in Aug 2022. I meant to say that I have given none to him and don’t intend to

EC = ehrlichia canis. My vet in PA had never encountered it up here in PA, but apparently it requires the same treatment as Lymes Disease, thus the one month of doxycycline which finished today. I had thought of asking your advice re herbal alternatives but didn’t get round to it

I also forgot to say that I put powdered seasonal support (to increase their resistance to fleas n ticks), powdered probiotics, and powdered fermented food on their meals daily. I get these items from mercola.com; also the dehydrated beef cubes
If I recall from listening to Medical Medium, Anthony William on SoundCloud a few years ago, he does not advocate fermented foods for humans. So I’d be curious to see what you think

Thank you very much for your recommendation. I’ll look into them next

Whoops forgot to say that Benny, his ‘wife’ Emma a shitzu, and their son Gizmo, came from TN where EC can be found

 

[Dr. Jeff]

does not advocate fermented foods for humans

Fermented foods and probiotics would be wonderful things for you to rotate through over the next year (or more).

See if Benny likes sauerkraut, Kim
Chi, etc. And also start rotating through probiotics starting with The Wolf from Adored Beast.

Pre & Probiotics

Pre & probiotics are an essential part of a healthy supplement regimen. Probiotics encourage the growth of friendly bacteria in the gut, helping to crowd out harmful, disease causing bacteria. And prebiotics feed probiotics, allowing them to thrive! To keep your animal healthy, you want to help...

adoredbeast.com

https://goop.com/wellness/health/why-fermented-foods-matter/#:~:text=The%20enzymes%20in%20fermented%20vegetables,for%20the%20body%20to%20absorb.

When you finish the bottle switch to Fido's Flora also from Adored Beast, and then their other great probiotics, then use ones like Mitomax, Rx Biotic, Probio Defense (a human probiotic product by Xymogen) etc.

How was the EC "diagnosed"? I ask because the in house test that most vets run is indicative of exposure and not infection.

It might be helpful for you to take the HA! Lyme course (As you know, EC and Lyme are similar tick-borne diseases).

If you're not already doing so, you may want to start working with a trained vet homeopath.

Drs. Judy Herman, Todd Cooney, Adriana Sagrera, myself, etc. all can work virtually as part of your vet care team along with your local vet.

You can find others here:

Please Read Before Proceeding – The Academy of Veterinary Homeopathy

theavh.org

 

[Jean Messeih]

Hmmm! I don't know how the EC was diagnosed, except by a lab test in the vet's office. That was the day I finally took him to the vet, and his severe neurological symptoms and lack of O2 led the vet to tell me that Benny actually might not make it - (Thurs 15 June) My vet was out of town after that, thus I took Benny to a vet who does chiropractic/electroacupuncture, which had had a marvellous effect on my previous dogs. She diagnosed the GB/Pancreas/Li problems and treated him allopathically. She wondered if he also had Cushings, but based on the normalization of the Hb, Hct and ALP since then, my vet doesn't think he does have Cushings. Benny has had a boatload of antibiotics now since June 18th, but the 30-day doxy finished yesterday, so it's too late to do anything except to remediate his GI tract with probiotics, and keep him healthy and happy. He is happy. Thank you for the info re fermented foods. Right now I'm giving the powdered version of both of them to all my dogs daily. But b/c Benny was subjected to so many antibiotics, I'm giving him the probiotic powder twice daily.
When you say to rotate them, do you mean that they shouldn't be given together on the same day?

 

[Dr. Jeff]

When you say to rotate them, do you mean that they shouldn't be given together on the same day?

By rotation, I mean switching the strains of probiotic bacteria used whenever the bottle runs out.

“We routinely recommend Align, Phillips Colon Health, VSL#3, Flora-Q and Culturelle in our GI clinic,” Dr. Hilgenfeldt said. “We do this for two reasons. One, these brands are well-known and produced by large companies and, two, they are the most commonly found and accessible. We recommend patients rotate every 30 to 90 days to a different probiotic, as each of them contains different strains of microorganisms.”

From:

Trust Your Gut--What You Need to Know About Probiotics

There are approximately 1,000 different species of bacteria in the lining of your gut, some considered “good” bacteria and/or yeast (probiotics), and some considered “bad.” The key is maintaining a balance of the two.

www.tryonmed.com

Yes, you can do multiple ones on the same day.

 

[Dr. Christina]

Quick question, Jean.
Are you doing chinese medicine & chiropractic weekly or every other week with the "vet who does chiropractic/electroacupuncture"

Be sure to ask if you can do acupressure at points she recommends in between visits. If Benny likes it, continue. If any day he does not want you to do acupressure (offer him the choice each day) then skip a day.

DR. Christina