Need help with Vaccine decisions for new puppy

[jsqueglia]

We are in the process of adding a new pup to our household. The pup is just 5 weeks today. We will be getting him at 8 weeks.

He is being raised in an environment that had Parvo in it 2 1/2 yrs ago. Since then puppies raised on this property have been routinely vaccinated at 6 weeks with Neopar and before they go to their homes they are Vet checked and given a DAPP vacc.. There has been no further incidence of Parvo on the property.

This pup will come to us and live a life that will take him on hikes in the woods, many trips to training centers, dock diving and dog shows. He will be exposed.

So I am asking for thoughts on the vaccination issue.

Dr Dodd's does recommend the 6 week Neopar for pups raised in an environment that Parvo has been in previously. It is my understanding that it stays in the environment for at least 2 years.

In this situation I feel the benefit of the Neopar may out weigh the risk. But the DAPP just 2 weeks later has me concerned. Plus is it better to just give the Distemper/Parvo?
What is the incidence of Adenovirus? Parainfluenenza?

I am inclined to take the puppy vet checked without the DAPP on board and make an appointment with our local holistic vet for just the Dist/Parvo and do it at 9 or 10 weeks? Thoughts?? This breeder will work with us on this issue.
We live 2 1/2 hrs away from the pup so it isn't feasible to be there to administer anything or watch the pup so we are just trying to figure out the best way to do the right thing for this little guy to give him the best start possible.

This breeder raw feeds w/supplemental kibble and minimally vaccinates. The pups have been started on raw.
Thank you in advance for any thoughts and advice as this is a lot to sort out and we want to do the right thing.

Jackie

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hi Jackie-

Congratulations on adopting a new puppy!

Despite parvo possibly being in the environment, I'd personally still hold off on such an early age vaccination.

But that's just me.

Early age vaccines can also really imbalance the immature immune system and predispose to allergic and other hyper-sensitivity problems later in life.

Environmental exposure certainly could (but deoesn't necessarily) increase the risk. It's a trade off.

Parvo in the environment may increase exposure risk but also is an awe-some way for the pup to get the natural exposure he needs. As per Dr. Todd's webinar:

If the breeder was in the midst of an outbreak, the risk would be much higher but even that could be mitigated.

However the toxins in the vaccine will be a risk factor no matter what the exposure.

Yes, no matter what, minimize the # of vaccines.

A double whammy in two weeks is too much IMO.

The incidence of adeno/parainfluenza are very low (I've never seen an adeno case).

Perhaps one NeoPar just prior to your picking him up and a distemper/parvo at 14-16 weeks?

Or none at all!

It all depends on your comfort level.

In the short run, you probably won't see any problems no matter what you elect, but my concern would be predisposition to problems later down the line.

There seems to be a direct relationship between vaccinosis and age at vaccination + frequency of vaccination.

As you know, the most important way to help your pups is to minimize any vaccine.

There's lots more info. in the vaccinosis resource member area of the main site.

Above all, love your new pup lots and lots!

 

[Dr. Christina]

How wonderful for you to be doing step 2 of HMDM - research - BEFORE you get your new pup!!!

I agree with Dr. Jeff to not give the Nupar even though Parvo was present, as there should be adequate maternal antibody at 6-8 weeks, and even up to 14 weeks. If he does get ill, you can certainly work with Dr. Jeff since you are a member.

As your pup develops a natural immunity (with or without the artificial immunity from a vaccine) the more exposure the better as that keeps the immune system ready to go.

I agree with you to wait and see your holistic vet at 10 weeks for the one distemper and parvo, or even, if possible - parvo one week and distemper the next. Then Rabies at 5 months.

There are several things you can do to minimize vaccine damage:

• Learn Reiki before you get the pup and hold the syringe in your hand, then Reiki the injection site (those 2 could be done the holistic vet staff if they are trained), then offer daily Reiki to all living beings in your home.
• Get the Flower Essence from Jackson Galaxy/Spirit Essences called Vaccine Detox and give for a week before and a week after the vaccine

You may want to attend this weekend's live streaming (or if close enough come in person) and ask all possible questions on different pup issues. To register click here.

Dr. Christina

 

[jsqueglia]

Thank you Dr Jeff and Dr Christina for your replies.

Everything you both said makes sense. I have also done more research on my own.

Thank you to Tech Master David. Searching the website was super easy gathering all the info on vaccines and vaccinosis. Great Search ability!

I am attuned through Reiki Master so I will continue to send distance Reiki to the new pup and pack/caregivers as a whole. We all need Reiki.

I am signed up for this weekend seminar and will pop in when I can.
With Gratitude,
Jackie

 

[jsqueglia]

So after last nights EH I decided I needed to post a follow up to my original post.

I guess I should also say that my Creative Type is The Thinker. The online test could not be more accurate and I think I am the extreme being an OVER-Thinker.... not sure this is a good thing...

I really fretted about the vaccines. My gut said NO. However,after listening to the opinions of Dr Jeff and Dr Christina plus the holistic vet who the pup will be seeing, plus heard from the breeders perspective since our dogs are immersed in environments saturated with other dogs from many different parts of the country(dog shows, training centers, dock diving etc..). Plus asking other breeders and reading all the info on the HA! website.....

I ultimately made the decision to have the breeder give the Neopar just prior to him coming home at 8 weeks. He was 7 weeks and a couple days old when he got the vaccine. I had a vet appointment made for him at 10/11 weeks.

4 days post vaccine and during the Full Moon he started to have weird 'chewing gum' seizures late that Sunday afternoon.
So off to the VCA hospital. Bloodwork was essentially normal for a 7 week old puppy only a slight elevation in one of the liver enzymes and low BUN. The vet was not concerned.
No fever, no urinating/defecating, no stiff legs and no paddling. Only vocalized during one of the fits. He was put on Keppra anti-seizure medication and is now being weaned off of it and is acting totally normal and doing well.
The seizures came on very suddenly. He was outside running with his pack, digging holes and chasing birds and then....

So needless to say we are devastated. So now for the questions...

The rest of the litter was vacc at 6 weeks

The veterinarians first thought was poisoning of some kind. The breeder has scoured the areas that the pups had access to and found nothing.
The seizures could possibly have been caused by a Mycotoxin.

If you read the description of the penicillium penitrem A poisoning, it is what he was doing. Hyper salivation, facial tremors with chewing gum movements, super Hypersensitive to environmental stimuli.

None of the other pups were affected if it was Mycotoxin poisoning.

This pup also never stopped eating or drinking and apparently is a good eater. So, in my mind, a stray moldy piece of dog food or people food that a 'chow hound' would find is not entirely impossible.

So, I suspect we will never know for sure if this was triggered by the vaccine or the Mycotoxin or both but ... we may still decide to take this pup.
There is a long involved and emotional story behind this little guy. Our gut feelings also say that it is meant to be. Something to be learned from this situation...

So if all goes well, he is weaned from the Keppra and continues in a normal fashion...
now what do we do?? Vaccines?He'll need at least Rabies? Re-balancing? His holistic vet is an excellent TCVM vet and acupuncturist.
We only met the little guy for an hour and a half at 5 weeks old, so not easy to come up with a remedy other than the acute. Could a remedy bring the seizures back? That would be scary.....

I send him Reiki regularly and there have been many prayers sent for him as well.

So as we talked about last night these decisions are not easy. No right or wrong answer. I thought this whole thing through. Did what I thought was best. Lost sleep over the process, did my research.....
it's easy to think that I made a bad decision BUT there is so much about individuality that can't be seen so I guess we just have to do the best we can.
The reality, I guess is that this may have happened even in the absence of a vaccine. So much we do not know.

Any thoughts?

Jackie

 

[jsqueglia]

More thoughts.... I also wanted to add that my research that lead to my vaccine decision, as one might expect, found opinions that ranged from no vaccines to give the Neopar at 6 weeks and follow up with DAPP at 10 weeks(this was the recommendation of our holistic vet). One breeder gives DAP and essentially follows Dr Dodd's protocol and hasn't needed Neopar but knows of breeders that use Neopar and swear by it with no known consequences.

When vaccinating for anything it seems your comfort level and RISK has to be taken into context. Living with dogs that routinely leave their house and can at times be exposed to thousands of dogs at a time at shows, training centers etc... EVEN THOUGH my gut tells me to relax go slow and let Natural Exposure work.... it is EXTREMELY difficult for a lay person to overcome the FEAR mode that our society has been really good at instilling in each one of us.

I also wanted to add that this pup comes from a breeder who has never witnessed or had reported any seizures of any kind in these lines after20+ years of breeding.

I also wanted to add to the complexity of making decisions for our animals that are being cared for by more than one person. My partner who is equally invested in the care of this dog has come a long way in accepting the new ways of holistic care for our pups but he is not as comfortable with Homeopathy as I am. So ultimately, my HMDM has to take into consideration, his comfort level too. If this pup were to be solely under my care, my decisions may have been completely different.

I hope my posts have helped others understand that we all go through these decision making processes. Because my case has taken a different direction than anticipated does not mean that I made a bad decision but rather... sometimes stuff just happens. I didn't intend to scare anyone with my first post and felt I should clarify.

Jackie