Miscellaneous food and prep questions Raw turkey and cooked Lamb and raw organs

[LilF]

I have been buying Blossom a variety of organs and adding them to one meal, about a tablespoon or two to her dinner. I have used raw liver, raw lamb kidney, raw beef heart (how am I doing Ginny?!))) ) and plan to get some pancreas etc.... So are all those fine? I also had some ground lamb sent to me by mistake and cooking it yields a ton of fat that sticks to the meat when put in the refrigerator. Is there a way to avoid this fat settling on the ground lamb. I use ground bison but it is not NEARLY as bad as this lamb. I want to avoid pancreatitis--it is so fatty. Third question is I have access to some soy free ground turkey including organs (pet food) tested for glyphosate as well. Is raw turkey ok for them to eat---I thought that raw poultry has a lot of bacteria and needs to be cooked. This is not high pressure processed or any of the commercial brands to my knowledge.

I have also not been giving her a multivitamin or mineral or calcium because I feed her the organs. Is this correct? Actually, maybe once a week I give her the seaweed calcium and she gets a bone to chew as well.

Blossom has a bottomless "pit" and loves ALL food, apples, sauerkraut, bee pollen.....etc....whatever I am eating she wants some. She makes me laugh.

 

[GinnyW]

Why are you cooking???? Don't cook; it adds nothing good, and alters many compounds. And the raw fat in any meat is a good thing! This is what dogs thrive upon - the most highly valued part of the prey animals. Pancreatitis is aggravated by sugars, not fats.

The ground turkey is fine; any surface bacteria are easily handled by dogs, and are no worse than what comes with commercial chicken. And the organs are great, with that variety being wonderful. Get what you can; don't worry if you can't find the rarer ones. Emphasize red meats, as possible - more nutrition, and better raised than poultry.

A varied raw diet precludes the need for "multivitamins" etc. And keep giving her edible bones. Carry on, my dear!

 

[Dr. Christina]

Love the conversation. From a TCVM (chinese food therapy) meats are often cooked and dogs and cats do great on them. Just like with people, there is no one 'right' diet.

One thing is agreed on by everyone, though. Calcium is critical if bones are not being fed. Organ meats do not have calcium, so I would be using a calcium supplement. Again, there are many different opinions as to which form is best - bone meal, from sea weed, or from egg shells.

I would feed calcium daily. Either bones or the sea weed calcium.

Dr. Christina

 

[GinnyW]

I've been looking around and can find nothing specific about the blood/calcium content of organs. However, no one who has ever butchered a deer or the like would question the amount of blood in liver, spleen, or heart (a big muscle). Calcium is a component of blood, and the only parts with more of it are the bones, where blood is manufactured. Edible bones make big sense, and observation of carnivores bear this out: Organs first, then muscles and finally bones. Just sayin'.

 

[LilF]

So I am trying to cover all bases......which is why I do both I guess. So I don't HAVE to cook all the human meat I buy, bison, lamb, turkey and lean beef thin steaks? Wow, that saves me a lot of time. Maybe I will "wean" her toward more raw and see how she does. . Tomorrow morning she gets RAW lamb. I like to feed something new in the morning rather than evening in case she doesn't tolerate something GI speaking... I was supplementing also with the Open Farm gently cooked grass fed beef. Thing I don't like about that is the amount of carrots which are high in arsenic and sugar. I fed the turkey to Gabby who had Hemangiosarcoma and regret not varying her diet more. I feed Blossom a wide variety of foods. I think the raw turkey chub I purchased today does have bone in it so she is covered there for calcium. I assume. I also just purchased chicken hearts which are small.... Should I just throw one whole heart in her meal once a day or each meal. I am getting used to the "yuck factor" of handling these organs I have also ordered 2 lb turkey breasts which are huge--are you saying to just cut and serve those too? Seems they are a bit hard to cut when raw.

 

[GinnyW]

Give her BIG pieces of turkey, so she has to work on them. Anything she swallows whole is OK, but better if she chomps on the pieces before swallowing. It won't hurt her to swallow too big a chunk, hork it back up, chew some more and then swallow it down; that's what the wild things do. It's not difficult to whack up the turkey into big chunks. Neatness doesn't count, but better to have a big flat slab than a squarish chunk - it encourages chewing. Remember that dogs cannot chew, actually, since their jaws don't move sideways. All they do is to get it to a size that they can swallow.
You can feed as many chicken hearts as you like - no downside; they're good meat. They're also treat size, so you can use them for rewards or games. And don't worry about stuff in carrots, in these tiny amounts.

Relax and have more fun ....

 

[Dr. Jean Hofve]

Ground lamb is 50% fat, so I would cut it with a leaner meat. It's also quite low in taurine. Not my favorite for dogs (though a nice dish of lamb korma suits me just fine!).

I don't think pancreas tastes very good, and its main value is enzymes. You could just sprinkle digestive enzymes (while the food is cooked). Raw food contains all the necessary enzymes to digest.

My rule of thumb, derived from Pitcairn's recipe, is a heaping tablespoon of calcium per pound of meat. Personally I like Standard Process Calcifood. There is calcium in blood, but the blood is drained out of any meat you can buy, because it spoils so fast. It's the first thing that happens with any meat carcass. They kill it, hang it, cut the throat, drain the blood. Blood also has value independent of the carcass, so processers aren't about to let that profit go to waste!

Edible, digestible bones are fine too. But animals raised for meat have a very unbalanced meat-to-bone ratio. So if you used, say, a whole chicken, you would still need to add calcium.

 

[LaurenHW]

I have a Cat that had acute pancreatitis and i switched him from cooked to a raw diet and he has done much better.
I learned a lot about raw feeding bs cooked on PetSummits.com and DrJudyU.com who has lots of recipes.
I have been told to add 1 teaspoon of Calcium to 1 pound Meat. I use Animals Essentials Seaweed Calcium and Cats blood levels are just right.
My Cat does always want Raw, so when he refuses it, I five him cooked or high quality canned occasionally.

 

[LilF]

If they are getting additional calcium, where is the magnesium to balance it if not giving a multi and not feeding a commercial food where it is already added. Isn't calcium magnesium balance critical for heart health in dogs like it is in humans? I just received a 5 lb chub of raw turkey with bone and liver in it. It says to feed 2-3% of dog's weight. Being bad in math and things like this, I am totally guessing how much that is in terms of a cup etc... or basically I am giving her a chunk and also mixing in some cooked ground turkey. It also says you could thaw it and then refreeze it. I thought you could not refreeze raw meat once defrosted. This food prep is really technical and it is tempting to pick a commercial food and just add a "bit" of this other raw stuff and organs. I am concerned about balance and Vit D which is why I give her salmon or sardines occasionally. I need a separate refrigerator just for all the options I have for meals,not to mention I think she is gaining weight because of the training, the treating and the snuffle mat treats a couple times a day. Ha Ha she really IS getting to BE a CHUB like her new meal option.

 

[GinnyW]

Whole prey - or farm animals, of course - when fed in variety as far as parts, organs, species, will cover all the nutritional bases quite well. That takes care of worrying about nutrients. WE did not invent dogs; they are an ancient species that fed itself quite well. We need only to provide variety and get the heck out of the way. All those words of advice, formulas, percentages are stuff the marketing folks dream up to coerce you into buying their products. Listen: NO prep. NO percentages. No this and that to avoid nutritional deficiencies - unless you feed a limited, unvarying, single-species, single formula diet.
And if she is gaining weight, she is on her way to the plague of overweight that affects virtually ALL dogs. I have read that 67% of all dogs are overweight; I think I'd put it higher. You need to nip this in the bud, with small meals ONCE a day, tiny treats, fasting occasionally, or you risk setting her up for a huge number of organic issues and diseases. There are very few conditions NOT caused by too much or the wrong food. You've got a wonderfully clean slate here; don't louse it up. Substitute praise and play for treats: TELL her what you want and how much you like the good choices she makes; she would much rather please you than eat mindlessly.
Oh, and yes, you can refreeze meat many times. The olny thing affected is texture. You're doing well! Just need to feed less, worry less, love more....

 

[LaurenHW]

@LilF www.drjudyu.com has a great course on Raw Feeding as does PetSummits.com

 

[LilF]

@LaurenHW I just saw a webinar on Jeff Grognet's series about feeding organs. Since I have been giving Blossom organs and REAL raw meat, her energy is better. I guess they are very nutrient dense like you all say. I put down the drjudyu on my list to do. The texture of the organs are usually spit out given alone but if I mix them up in the bowl they get eaten. I just wish I had a solution for the snuffle mat---when I go out I fill it with dry or training jerky treats. She needs something to do while I am out about 3 times a day. So lately I have been chopping up some bison or turkey real small and stuffing those in.... real food---but she is still eating too much to keep her busy with the snuffle mat. She finishes it rather fast but she keeps going to it to see if there was anything she missed. Sometimes by the time I pull out of the driveway I see her at the window which means she has already finished the treats in the mat.

 

[LaurenHW]

@LaurenHW I just saw a webinar on Jeff Grognet's series about feeding organs. Since I have been giving Blossom organs and REAL raw meat, her energy is better. I guess they are very nutrient dense like you all say. I put down the drjudyu on my list to do. The texture of the organs are usually spit out given alone but if I mix them up in the bowl they get eaten. I just wish I had a solution for the snuffle mat---when I go out I fill it with dry or training jerky treats. She needs something to do while I am out about 3 times a day. So lately I have been chopping up some bison or turkey real small and stuffing those in.... real food---but she is still eating too much to keep her busy with the snuffle mat. She finishes it rather fast but she keeps going to it to see if there was anything she missed. Sometimes by the time I pull out of the driveway I see her at the window which means she has already finished the treats in the mat.

Smart Girl! Maybe getting a puzzle that she has to find and dig out the food/treats. What about organic unsalted Peanutbutter in a Mine Platter? A Laser light on a timer that will run while your gone? Just some ideas.

 

[LilF]

@LaurenHW I saw her courses on drjudyu and they look like there is a fee for some of them so I will pass on those. BUT, I did find a very informative article on pyometra and a link about homeopathy for it on that site so I will be perusing it even more for those articles. Thank you,.... sometimes we are led in other directions that we need information on when searching something totally different. Cool.... I am going to make homeopathy prevention/treatment for pyometra the subject of my next free call in February. Thanks for your reply and info link... I AM an info junkie of sorts...