Found a flea. What now?

[DanielleDL]

@Dr. Jeff

Found a flea on Bobby's face tonight. ? Combed him with the flea comb, but didn't find any more. It's too late for a bath or anything (9:30pm). What should I do tomorrow?

Edit: I'm reading Dr. Christina's book, but I tell me anyway. I'm in newbie semi-panic mode. Might have just been a visiting flea, but now I can't stop feeling like they're all over me. ? I also ordered Wondercide Flea and Tick (outdoor spray) for the yard, and I've already sprinkled cedar shavings (luckily, we don't have much natural space in the yard. Just a couple strips of wood chips. The rest is concrete.

Tomorrow I will be cleaning the house top to bottom and doing laundry. I'm also looking into how to make/buy flea traps (the ones on Amazon look sketchy, so some reliable links would be helpful). I have an heating panel for birds that might work (have to figure out how to safely set it up, since it's meant to hang on a cage).

It's a "good" thing I'm taking this week off (I say good in quotes because I'll now have the time to spend on all this. But, really, I needed a relaxing work break, and this isn't a good start )

 

[GinnyW]

Umm, deep breath time... If they're on him, they won't jump off onto you. Comb him gently, looking under legs and on his belly, behind his ears. Chances are that he picked up one or several, and once you get those there won't be more. Don't be spraying stuff around without a demonstrated need; don't use "stuff" on him, just comb, and not obsessively. If you want, put down a saucer of soapy water with a light bulb over it, just in the middle of the floor.
I'm betting this was an opportunistic leap, and there are few to no others.

 

[DanielleDL]

@GinnyW - Thanks for the reassurance! Considering how wound up I can get about things, last night I was surprisingly calm about it (still read as much of Dr. Christina's book as I could, but surprised that I (1) went to bed at a reasonable hour, and (2) slept through the night. These types of things usually keep me up until I have a complete plan/solution.)

Today I'll be hitting the thrift stores and my parents' house for a decent lamp. I used to have one that would've worked perfect, but it got sacrificed to the donation gods in the last downsize (never fails that I'll get rid of something just before I need it. Seriously, this always happens. Marie Kondo was wrong ?).

I vacuumed two days ago, but I'll do a "super crevice" vacuum and mop today and flea comb Bobby (he loves his crotch check, the perv ?), probably after each of his walks (he goes on four walks a day). The only thing I ever put on him is Cedarcide Original (rubbed on, because he's too frightened of sprays), and that's only before we go to the grasslands/park. Part of me thinks that the flea was on his face because that's the only place where Bobby doesn't get the Cedarcide (he's sensitive to essential oil smells so I rely on his Insect Shield bandana to keep bugs off his face when we're out. When I saw the flea, I combed him, didn't find anymore fleas or [or any flea dirt], and put the Insect Shield bandana back on him to sleep in so he didn't get bugged in the night if there are any more. He should have residual Cedarcide all over the rest of his body. But, yes, I'm NOT going to go crazy dousing him in things right now. Thank you for saying that, cuz I might have otherwise.)

AND, to treat myself for being such a good doggie mommie, I'm going to sign up for an orientation at SFRAW (a place in SF, about 20 minutes from me, that has the highest quality food I can find for the most reasonable price. Bobby is eating commercial raw now, but I'm a maximizer, not a satisficer. [not optimal, because it can be stress-inducing to be so vigilant, but my obsessive efforts often pay off, so I've accepted it.])

Ok, Bobby just got back from his first walk. Time to comb! Thanks again for your input! I'm slowly but surely coming to terms with this.

 

[DanielleDL]

After Bobby's first flea comb, I found a single piece of flea dirt on the back of his neck, but no fleas. Also did a scratch and search in the white-floored kitchen (never been so happy to have a white floor), but no flea dirt. Decided to put some Cedarcide on his neck and face (not a lot, gave him a neck massage while I did it). Also put his Insect Shield bandana back on him. His BEAM is still decent, other than the fact that he's sick of me messing with him (we're also contending with red, itchy ears that he keeps scratching until they bleed.). So hard to be patient with natural methods at times like this (but I'd be paranoid about pumping him full of conventional chemicals too, so I feel kinda damned if I do/don't.)

 

[GinnyW]

You know, if he's dealing with these other systemic challenges, that alone could render him slightly more attractive to the fleas - they sense weakness. Are you working with a homeopath on his total presentation? In any case, the predilection to collect fleas is definitely a sign of compromise.

I'm originally from the Bay Area, and never had a particular problem with fleas unless in really slummy neighborhoods. Incidentally, I was involved in the coop scene there, with SF Raw and others, a good 25 years ago. Have fun! ...A friend of mine there was fond of saying that her hobby used to be dogs, but now it was FEEDING dogs....

 

[Dr. Jeff]

I'm going to sign up for an orientation at SFRAW

Fantastic that you found them! I love their work and many of the HA! members also love them (and love Kasie the owner).

I'm a maximizer, not a satisficer. [not optimal, because it can be stress-inducing to be so vigilant, but my obsessive efforts often pay off, so I've accepted it.])

Thanks for sharing this fascinaating work Danielle. I had not heard the word satisficer before and love the ideas it conveys.

 

[DanielleDL]

You know, if he's dealing with these other systemic challenges, that alone could render him slightly more attractive to the fleas - they sense weakness. Are you working with a homeopath on his total presentation?

That crossed my mind. We've only had Bobby 7 months (and 4 months of that was surgery recovery on his leg) so I've had a lot to research/implement in a short amount of time. There's no way I could get him optimized that quickly. I just wish there was a way to keep him on conventional pest meds while optimizing his health, but I realize that the meds would just thwart our efforts. As for working with a homeopath, I have such a laundry list of try this/try that for Bobby, that that hasn't made it to the list yet. I tried a local Chinese Medicine practitioner, but he and I didn't jibe, so I'd rather not go back to him. And the other holistic vet who's local, isn't taking new clients (I'm on a waitlist). Two two other holistic vets are at least a half hour away (without traffic, which is not often), and Bobby's not a fan of the car, so I don't feel that stressing him (and me) out for vet visits will have a net benefit. So I'm kinda relying quite a bit on this forum. I can always have my conventional vet do diagnostics only, and bring the results back here (as long as I know what questions to ask). He's actually getting a distance Reiki session right now (it was originally for me, but I asked that he get it instead cuz of this flea/imbalance thing).

I'm originally from the Bay Area, and never had a particular problem with fleas unless in really slummy neighborhoods.

We're in an area that's in the early process of gentrification, so it still has its rough patches. We're also a 5 minute walk from the Bay and the grasslands, and take Bobby there almost every day. Also, Bobby wants to meet every dog he sees, so he usually meets a strange dog on most days. There's plenty of opportunities for flea encounters.

 

[LilF]

Fantastic that you found them! I love their work and many of the HA! members also love them (and love Kasie the owner).

Thanks for sharing this fascinaating work Danielle. I had not heard the word satisficer before and love the ideas it conveys.

I have to say I am a clone of Danielle..... total freak out with some things and vigilant and proactive--. I agree totally 1,000 percent that to be so vigilant is stress inducing (I am suffering from this the past few years) but the obsessive efforts as you say have paid off with more years to my dogs lives hands down..... So right on Danielle you nailed it..... Thank you for being so "real"here.....I would be freaking out just like you---matter of fact, I had to wonder if I wrote your posts in my sleep unbeknownst to me as they sound like a carbon copy of how I would react and what I would say!! Glad you caught this early before you had a pandemic of fleas... Thought I would use the operative word of the times..... "pandemic" !!

 

[DanielleDL]

I have to say I am a clone of Danielle..... total freak out with some things and vigilant and proactive--. I agree totally 1,000 percent that to be so vigilant is stress inducing (I am suffering from this the past few years) but the obsessive efforts as you say have paid off with more years to my dogs lives hands down

Ok, good, that kinda puts me at ease. I can't say that I'm happy with how overreactive I get, but (1) a lot of past trauma with animals (and people) around illness has made me this way, so I try to forgive myself, because my heart is so much in the right place, and (2) like I said, my hypervigilance typically gets rewarded in the form of some magnificent solutions to really baffling problems. And, I'm sure you've experienced this @LiiF where the experts and professionals are of little help, and YOU are the one to solve the problem (one of my proudest moments was figuring out that my Mom's heartburn medicine was making her dementia worse, something that her doctor didn't have a clue about. Another was seeing subtle changes in our beloved little parrot, Cricket [RIP], which led to the discovery that she had a soft-shelled egg stuck in her little body, requiring surgery and saving her life).

The only thing I don't like with dogs, is there are so many opinions and so many scary articles (on both sides of the fence) that it's hard to parse out what's right for Bobby (and it's all so expensive!). Parrots are so much "easier" in that there's so little info about them, and the professionals will admit that, so there's not a pull in multiple directions. It's all "going with the gut" and experimentation (and a lot of shoulder shrugging and crossing fingers). I know that caring for Bobby is the same, but I'm in a different place now--my depression and anxiety (from caring for my mother) has really broken my connection with my intuition. I'm trying very hard to repair that, but until then, I basically carpet bomb problems (ie, flea combing him after every walk, which means 4 combs a day, plus daily vacuuming and bedding washing. I'm sure I'll let up in a week [this is Day 3] because I've still only seen that one flea the first day and that one piece of flea dirt on the second day, but, yeah I'll totally admit I'm a mess over one flea.). I'm also new to caring for a dog, so I expect a mad scramble to learn as much as possible so I can get to what works for us and Bobby as quickly as possible, but DAMN, I'm tired ? The efforts I've poured into my mother and Bobby (and work and household, etc) are starting to destroy me. I recognize that, and am taking action, but it's rough (apparently there's no room for ME). I'm really looking forward to the moment I've got a better handle on Bobby's care (nailing down his food source was HUGE!). Ok, and I'll admit, despite all the stress and anxiety all this causes, I do love a complex project, and Bobby has delivered in spades. ?

Anyway, sorry for the long-winded rant. I know you get it, but I still don't want to wear out my welcome. Ha! I assure you, I will calm down as I get a grip on all this. Just having new mommy worries. ?

 

[Dr. Christina]

Welcome to the community and thanks to all who are responding to support Danielle.

One of our speakers, animal intuitive Kate Solisti, has a recent post on fleas - Flea & Tick Prevention: Start Now with These Safe Choices

Ginny's suggestion that you begin to work with a veterinary homeopath since there are no good holistic vets near you is super.
1. www.homevet.com/new-client-questionaire is to become a client of Dr. Jeff.
2. www.theAVH.org for good phone consulting veterinary homeopaths. There are some, I think, in the SF area.
3. May want to check out Dr. Cheryl Schwartz - nearish to you - she wrote Four Paws, Five Directions decades ago and is a wonderful chinese medicine vet. Full of energy woman, too!

Dr. Christina

 

[DanielleDL]

@Dr. Christina - Yes, I agree with you and @GinnyW . Bobby needs a full analysis and optimization plan. Would having a remote holistic vet, in combination with a trusted conventional-but-open-minded vet for things requiring an in-person visit, be just as effective as driving Bobby 40+ minutes (more if traffic is bad) to the closest holistic vet taking new clients (Whole Pet Veterinary was taking clients, last I checked). Cheryl's roughly the same drive time, but is across a bridge, and those can get really gnarly, traffic wise. [but thank you for the reference! I would still like to talk to her]). And I do like working with @Dr. Jeff, so if having a remote homeopath + conventional in-person combo is just as effective as the long-drive method, I'm totally happy with that. But if you feel that a 40+ minute drive once in a while might be better, just to have a holistic vet also be the person who inspects Bobby in person, then Bobby and I will tough that out. Just curious if that would outweigh the inconvenience/stress of the drive.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

if having a remote homeopath + conventional in-person combo is just as effective as the long-drive method, I'm totally happy with that.

Yes, it is! In fact building a vet care team (a local open-minded vet, a remote vet homeopath and vet specialists if needed) is the most effective way to work with Bobby's body IMHO.

Drs. Judy Herman and Adriana are both super smart, sweet and well-trained vet colleagues of ours that you may want to check out:

Animal Wellness Center

At Animal Wellness Center, our primary modality of treatment is homeopathy. We also use nutritional supplements, western and eastern herbs, Bach flower essences, and conventional medicines where deemed appropriate.

www.judithhermandvm.com

Natural Pet Care - Metairie / New Orleans, Louisiana - Dr. Adriana Sagrera, DVM

Dr. Sagrera is committed to alternative medicine as a way to improve the health of her patients by the most natural and non-invasive means possible.

drsagrera.com

 

[DanielleDL]

@Dr. Jeff - Thanks as always for the info! I actually just completed your intake form. Take a look at it and let me know how long of an appointment I should book with you (assuming you're taking on new clients, and if you're not, I'll definitely check out every one that you and Dr. Christina have recommended).

 

[Dr. Jeff]

I'm reviewing your form now.

Yes, I am taking on only HA! All Access members as new clients.

 

[DanielleDL]

So I contacted Cedarcide, because I wanted to see some of their data about the efficacy of Cedarcide Original and they wrote back saying that "we've had many third party tests conducted by universities over the last 20 years." Awesome! So I requested to see the most recent 5 or so (any, really). And they wrote back with
"Thank you for the reply. Unfortunately, we do not have any additional information we are able to provide at this time. We hope you will give our products a risk-free try. Please let us know if we can be helpful."

Huh? What's with the lack of transparency if they have 20 years of third-party data? Not sure why they don't want to back up their claims. Even if their product works, I'm not sure I appreciate the brush off.

 

[LilF]

Are you kidding me? Huh.... very interesting.... not just efficacy, but now my hackles go up about the safety. I use a ton of it .... Maybe I should ask for an MSDS on it (Material Safety Data Sheet). Thank you for taking a deeper dive.. I too am very skeptical about places that claim they have data and won't share it. Again, I use the Earth Animal Bug spray on my dogs. Maybe look into that. I have had good luck with it but do not like their spray mechanism as it fails and spraying a bigger dog like mine, that is a problem as I spray them directly. I know you said you put it in your hand and apply. Thanks for the update. I will follow up with a request for a MSDS sheet.

 

[DanielleDL]

@LilF - Yeah, it crossed my mind to ask for an MSDS as well (just to see if they'd produce one). I'm not too concerned about safety, since the individual ingredients are pretty non-toxic from what I've read. For me, it's more that a company shouldn't be making claims they can't back up (and I want to use their product!). If there's data on the individual ingredients, even if there isn't data on the product as a whole, that might have even sufficed. I research individual ingredients all the time, but it's extremely time consuming (and I don't have time on any normal week. This week I'm "on vacation" but I basically spent all of it researching pest repellant products and trying to decide whether to go the heartworm larvacide [cuz it's not a "prevention"] route. Maybe you could chime in on that. Do you use conventional HW meds? New thread about that here.)

Sure, I'll take a look at Earth Animal Bug Spray. I'm actually at the point now where I think the one flea was just a rogue. I haven't found one since (knock on wood) nor have I found flea dirt. I've vacuumed every day but yesterday (and am looking into maybe getting a lighter, more agile vacuum. Our place is tiny and the vacuum is huge and heavy). As for the spray mech on your EA Bug, can you pour it into a better bottle? I've done that before.

Defo let me know if they give you an MSDS. It will probably just say the usual generic caveats (don't get in eyes, might cause skin irritation, if so flush with water and discontinue use, etc). Again, I'm not too worried about it, safety wise.

Thanks as always for your input, my sister in soulful skepticism! ?

 

[LilF]

@DanielleDL , Always enjoy your enthusiasm and passion for being a warrior for uncovering all layers of a situation to the betterment for your dog. It IS a full time job!!!! To answer your question, No, I have never used any heartworm meds for my dogs. Maybe if I lived in a more endemic area for heartworms I might be more aggressive about things. I do testing twice yearly and hope the spray I used deters mosquitos too. Last year the mosquitos even were biting ME, they were bad. I do get a company that sprays a "mosquito prevention" all over my property about 4 times a season. It used to be garlic only but now I think they also use a cedar spray. The stuff used on my property is garlic.... The dog I have now who is 15 or more had heartworm before I adopted him at age 7. Again maybe if I lived in a different area I might consider some sort of nosode or herb monthly preventive like black walnut but would have to consult with a holistic vet on it.

 

[DanielleDL]

@LilF - Thanks for the reassurance. We also live in an area low in HW incidences (SF Bay Area, CA), so I do have that on my side. My parents apparently never gave their dogs HW meds either (or even flea/tick preventatives; they just treated fleas when they happened), and their dogs were kibble eaters and they did fine, other than maybe not living as long or as healthfully as they could've. Granted they were "indoor" dogs, but we took them camping plenty of times, and got mosquitos in the house occasionally. My husband's parents never gave their dogs anything either, but they live in England, so not sure what their risk was, but still, as my husband put it, "Our dogs didn't go to the vet unless they were dying." And frankly, I think their dogs did just fine, even if kibble fed.

At this point, I think I'm blowing this HW thing out of proportion. There's definitely such a thing as too much information. ?

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Yes and no Danielle (IMHO).

Regarding acquiring information, I think you're definitely doing a great job. However regarding cognitive overload, Bob's "stop it" therapy strategy may apply:

Also, I think it may be helpful to get on my food quality and bio availability high horse.

Nowadays, clinical evidence is considered, by Evidence Based Medicine (EBM), to be among the lowest quality of reliable research. However my opinion is that EBM should mean both evidence and Experience Based Medicine.

My own experience is that food quality and bio availability is super important, but the vitality (and energy) of the food is even more important.

In people, feelings of happiness, sense of purpose and feelings of awe, gratitude, etc., are known to activate healing mechanisms. The working hypothesis is that happiness also decreases dis-eases and increases longevity in dogs.

Regardless of what they eat.

Proof of principle may be the pets who have historically lived long (16+ for dogs, 20+ for cats) lives. In addition, there are cohorts like this rescue (owned by "Robin" from Batman) that feed WalMart brand kibble but optimize happiness, and the dogs live super long vital lives:

Special Feeding and Care Program

You will see that our rescued dogs follow our Gentle Giants Special Feeding and Care Program. Notice that each dog self-regulates how much he or she eats, even though they are eating from special...

www.gentlegiantsdogfood.com