Cat not eating and wobbly (possible listeria exposure)

[JulyS]

My almost 18 year old cat (his birthday is in a few hours) decreased his food intake. First I thought it was the heat, then it was a desire to get more treats, but now he has lost a lot of weight in just a few days. He is domestic short hair neutered male. He eats raw and hasn't been vaccinated for at least four year, but was mostly on the vet recommended schedule his whole life. Hi Behavior is off, not wanting to be near or come to get attention. His Energy is really low, only moving to urinate or get water. His Appetite is minimal (though he seems hungry). And his Mood is the most normal, but still not normal.

A little back story I got some freeze dried organ meats for my dogs and he would dutifully line up for them. I did give him quite a bit of beef kidney without thinking. I also ordered from Viva raw and for the first time he immediately liked the new food so I fully switched (he had been iffy on what he was eating). They had a recall, but none of my lot numbers were in question. My other cat was still eating the other food (Small Batch frozen raw) as I waited for more Viva to come in. When Benji started eating less I ended up giving it to my other guy. I then saw some vomit. Thinking it was Benji (my 18yo), but after a few rounds I deduced it was my other cat. He stopped vomitting when I stopped giving him any Viva.

Last year Benji had pancreatitis and his eating and lethargy seemed similar so I was acting as if. I treated him with nux vomica twice. And tried to think if he had too much kidney. But now he's wobbly and eating nothing. Internet is making me wonder if he is having a reaction to listeria monocytogenes. I know it's rare in cats, but this all started with diarrhea and now he's having trouble walking. I want to take him to the emergency vet to find out, but of course I also read the treatment is intravenous antibiotics. Of course I'll do that if it's the only way, but would ideally avoid.

Anyone awake, @Dr. Jeff, @Dr. Jean Hofve @Dr. Christina, @Dr. Sara?

I just treated him with a dose of 200ck Arnica and 100ml of subcutaneous fluids. (He has CKD but is on no medication. I give him fluids from time to time, but increased with this heat and him not getting as much fluids in his food.)

Thank you

 

[Dr. Jeff]

I want to take him to the emergency vet

Yes, an exam and SQ fluids would be helpful. Don't worry (too much) about Listeria.

Happy birthday Benji!

BTW-Have you tried to feed him sardines or light scrambled eggs with parmesan cheese?

 

[Dr. Christina]

Also add energy healing, maybe Stress stopper or rescue remedy.
try feeding a bit of baby food, or puree/liquify what his loves the best.
See what Anitra suggests for food (her high calcium chicken broth) in the Natural Cat if you have it.
Dr. Christina

 

[JulyS]

Thank you both.

Yes, an exam and SQ fluids would be helpful. Don't worry (too much) about Listeria.

We are at the emergency vet now getting blood work. He has started crying in a really muffled voice and his heart rate is really low (130). I gave him fluids last night and this morning, both were absorbed almost immediately.

Happy birthday Benji!

He says thank you.

BTW-Have you tried to feed him sardines or light scrambled eggs with parmesan cheese?

I did try sardines and while he normally loves them hasn't been interested. I didn't try eggs, but that's not something he's too interested in under normal circumstances. But admittedly haven't tried with parmesan for him.

Do you think continuing arnica or nux vomica would be helpful, or trying something new? I considered arsenic and was on my way to get it when you messaged not to worry about listeria.

Also add energy healing, maybe Stress stopper or rescue remedy.

Been giving him stress stopper or rescue remedy regularly. I have tried some Bengton Method, but everytime I start be pulls away. I know you can do it remotely, but I don't understand how and get stuck not feeling the energy flow.

try feeding a bit of baby food, or puree/liquify what his loves the best.

In the last couple days I tried baby food, canned food, sardines, the lickable pouches. Yesterday I got desperate and got Fancy Feast. He enjoyed the gravy, but not chunks. Now I'm syringing a watered down "fully balanced for seniors" pouch into his mouth.

See what Anitra suggests for food (her high calcium chicken broth) in the Natural Cat if you have it.
Dr. Christina

It's one of the few I don't have, but should get it.

We're just waiting for the blood panel and next steps. Will update as I know more.

Tried to attach a video of him wobbly walking at 3am, but looks like it's too big.

 

[Dr. Jean Hofve]

Please update us!

 

[JulyS]

Hello everyone @Dr. Jeff, @Dr. Jean Hofve, @Dr. Christina,

Everything is happening so fast and nothing is written down so I get information that sometimes goes in one ear and out the other. They started him on IV fluids. They want to start with IV antibiotics, but I wanted to hold off until we knew more. He had an ultrasound which showed signs of an acute infection so I agreed to the IV antibiotics. The culture came back today with no growth. They want me to continue the antibiotics at home because there is a possibility that the urine was so dilated from the fluids that it didn't show up. I am unsure about this. Any thoughts?

After one day with IV fluids his BUN and creatinine significantly lowered. Since then his creatinine has been creeping back up. I am sitting at the hospital now ready to take him home. He is not very mobile in his hind legs, but does seem brighter than he was before.

They want him to be off fluids for three days and then recheck blood to see what's really happening. Sending me home with antibiotics (pradofloxacin) and mirataz for appetite.

I keep asking for the blood work in writing so I can post, but... the weekend.

If I keep him on the recommended antibiotics his next dose is tomorrow morning. Anyone have insights? I typically don't like to do antibiotics as a just a case. And also his kidneys are so bad I don't know if at this point it's better to be safe.

I will post his three different blood works when I have them.

Thank you

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Hey July!

If I keep him on the recommended antibiotics his next dose is tomorrow morning. Anyone have insights?

I am unsure about this. Any thoughts?

You may want to prioritize getting him to eat over anything else.

If the anti-biotics don't affect his appetite, great!

How is he doing at home?

Have you tried sitting with him outside?

 

[JulyS]

Benji has been eating okay since bringing him home. A little picky so hard to find what he wants, but eating. I opted against the antibiotics and so far so good. We haven't say outside, but that sounds nice. my only hesitancy with that is his flea attraction has been really high. @Dr. Jeff

He went back for a recheck today. His weight is up a little from when he left the hospital and his creatinine are the best they have been (even better than when he finished IV fluids and antibiotics). His walking is better than Sunday, but certainly not back to normal. I have him quarantined in my room to ensure he doesn't hurt himself on the stairs and so he can have food 24/7. He just got off three months of quarantine in February for broken bones last October so he knows the drill, but other than the food I don't know how much I need to worry about him. I hate separating him if he wants to be close.

Any ideas of enrichment activities while he's still lethargic and not fully mobile? Before this (or even before October), he liked catnip, snuggling, watching birds, occasionally playing with a toy and definitely eating, especially whatever the dogs were getting.

Also, @Dr. Jean Hofve any suggestion of a good floor essence for this time. Perhaps Graceful Aging? Or something else you can think of? I had been using Stress Stopper, but have slowed that use.

Thanks

 

[Dr. Jeff]

has been eating okay since bringing him home

Yay.

his creatinine are the best they have been (even better than when he finished IV fluids and antibiotics

YAY!!

Any ideas of enrichment activities while he's still lethargic and not fully mobile?

he liked catnip, snuggling, watching birds, occasionally playing with a toy and definitely eating

All of these are great. The more you can get him to purr and snuggle, the better!

Go Benji!

 

[Dr. Jean Hofve]

Stress Stopper is probably the best one under the current *stressful* circumstances. Also, spend as much time in your room *with* him as possible if he wants the attention! He was knocked down pretty far so it will take time to recover. Keep going, you're doing a great job!

 

[JulyS]

Hello @Dr. jeff, @Dr. Christina, @Dr. Jean Hofve,

Benji had been doing great. Then about a week ago before his final recheck he started eating less and showing lethargy again and a slight wobbly. I got his recheck moved sooner. He went in on Thursday and other than very low potassium which they gave me a gel supplement for, his blood work came out great. The vet suspects the mass she saw on his ultrasound is cancer and he has two months to live. He had lost a lot of weight in the week (down to 8.7 from 10.1), but otherwise in good spirits so I was unsure this assessment. We came home and a couple hours later his body was laying in a dead sort of way, but he was breathing. It took me several minutes to wake him, but then he did and perked right up. Then Friday night I thought I was going to lose him, but at 4am he woke up and ate more food from 4am- noon then he had in the previous three days. His appetite has been decent since then, but he goes from walking okay to wobbly to completely immobile in his hind legs. It starts with the side he broke two metatarsals that didn't heal properly, but takes over both legs. The doc said it's likely from the lack of potassium. I had already been sleeping on the floor of my ground floor with my dog who recently had surgery (that's a whole other post) so Benji had been staying in that room more. He moves from spot to spot, but otherwise his world is small except for a few outside trips with me).

I love this man with my full heart. Last year they told me his sister had 2-6 months of hospice and died two days later. How do I know he truly is dying vs can bounce back like he did last month or last year? I have only euthanized one pet of three that have died with me. I have mixed feelings about it.

So here are my questions, one, is there something else I can do for him, both to heal or to be comfortable if healing isn't an option? The vet said to give him 50mg of gabapentin or buprenex for pain, which I have a few times (the gabapentin), but was also unsure if it was making the wobbly worse. Two, is there something homeopathic I can give him for pain instead? I wasn't sure arnica would be a good fit. Three, how do I know if natural vs euthanasia is the right choice? I know it's a case by case situation and each guardian may have their preference, but is there a guide for someone who thinks both have their place? Four, when choosing an at home end of life vet, are there questions I should ask that I won't think of because my emotions are high? Five, is there a question I should ask here that I am not thinking of because see above?

Thank you.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

his blood work came out great.

Yay Benji!

The doc said it's likely from the lack of potassium.

Exactly! All of his symptoms can be from hypokalemia (lack of potassium) which is an essential element. Have you started the Tumil-K (or any other potassium supplement)?

How do I know he truly is dying vs can bounce back like he did last month or last year?

Great question! His vitality/energy and the ability to bounce back decreases the closer he comes to transitioning. Perhaps try to focus on the moment and not worry (too much) about what might happen. One thing we know for sure (it's one of the things we can't say "it depends" about) is that we all will die.

This may sound trite, but in my experience this acknowledgement of the reality of the inevitable end of life can help us better enjoy every day with our beloved companions.

was making the wobbly worse

Yup, both gabapentin and Buprenex will do that. And Buprenex (a potent morphine derivative) is much, much, much more effective for pain.

I wasn't sure arnica would be a good fit.

You can try it, but it probably won't do the trick.

guide for someone who thinks both have their place?

Yes! Have you gone through Gail Pope's courses in the member area?

I also asked Gail to look at your post and in addition she recommends her resources at:

Caregiver Education – Animal Hospice - BrightHaven

BrightHaven: Pioneer & Leader in the Emerging Field of Animal Hospice Hospice became a way of life at BrightHaven as we have cared for hundreds of senior and special-needs animals since 1990. In doing so, we have learned so much about love and the circle of life from our animal loved ones. We...

www.brighthaven.org

And scheduling a consultation with her to answer all your questions (asked and those you have not thought of) by emailing at: gail@brighthaven.org

 

[Dr. Christina]

Hang in there, July.
As long as he enjoys some moments of the day, no need to visit euthanasia, IMHO.

I can recall visiting Gail at one point and seeing an emaciated cat who slept most of the day except when visitors came. He greeted us at the door and then VERY slowly walked to the next doorway and waited for us. Gail said he was the official greeter. She is so good at seeing the healthy soul while monitoring needed symptoms. I mostly saw the symptoms. She is a good role model.
Christina

 

[Dr. Christina]

Maybe hypericum if it is more nerve pain. Maybe it is not pain. Definitely see if Gail can help with some suggestions.
Christina

 

[JulyS]

Thank you @Dr. jeff and @Dr. Christina,

Exactly! All of his symptoms can be from hypokalemia (lack of potassium) which is an essential element. Have you started the Tumil-K (or any other potassium supplement)?

They gave me RenaPlus (potassium gluconate). They said the gel was very easy. While that hasn't been my experience I've been giving to him. He was prescribed 2mEq (468mg) once a day, but removing the prescription label to get that info I see the recommended dose is 2mEq twice a day per 10 lbs (he has dropped under that). Is this something I should double up or call the prescribing vet and ask? He definitely seems to need it.

Great question! His vitality/energy and the ability to bounce back decreases the closer he comes to transitioning. Perhaps try to focus on the moment and not worry (too much) about what might happen. One thing we know for sure (it's one of the things we can't say "it depends" about) is that we all will die.

I will miss him terribly, but I have come to terms that me may not live to 30 like we've been talking about for a couple years. It's more about knowing if I should "help him"

This may sound trite, but in my experience this acknowledgement of the reality of the inevitable end of life can help us better enjoy every day with our beloved companions.

Yup, both gabapentin and Buprenex will do that. And Buprenex (a potent morphine derivative) is much, much, much more effective for pain.

Would you recommend getting buprenex for the hard nights? It's usually between 10pm and at least 4am that he struggles the most, but he is still eating. That's the thing that's the most confusing, but I will keep feeding him as much as he wants.

Yes! Have you gone through Gail Pope's courses in the member area?

I haven't. I will do that.

I also asked Gail to look at your post and in addition she recommends her resources at:

Caregiver Education – Animal Hospice - BrightHaven

BrightHaven: Pioneer & Leader in the Emerging Field of Animal Hospice Hospice became a way of life at BrightHaven as we have cared for hundreds of senior and special-needs animals since 1990. In doing so, we have learned so much about love and the circle of life from our animal loved ones. We...

www.brighthaven.org

And scheduling a consultation with her to answer all your questions (asked and those you have not thought of) by emailing at: gail@brighthaven.org

Thank you, this is all good info. I have really enjoyed her talks. I will reach out to her.

Hang in there, July.
As long as he enjoys some moments of the day, no need to visit euthanasia, IMHO.

That's what makes sense to me. And even that seems hard to tell. He likes eating (been eating can food instead of raw for the past month because he wants it more) and occasionally he purrs when I pet him, but generally he just sleeps and moves from one place (I have a heating pad on low for him always) to a second place (directly on the wood floor, likely when he gets too hot). Seems peaceful, but because of his walking struggle I worry.

I can recall visiting Gail at one point and seeing an emaciated cat who slept most of the day except when visitors came. He greeted us at the door and then VERY slowly walked to the next doorway and waited for us. Gail said he was the official greeter. She is so good at seeing the healthy soul while monitoring needed symptoms. I mostly saw the symptoms. She is a good role model.

I love this.

Maybe hypericum if it is more nerve pain. Maybe it is not pain. Definitely see if Gail can help with some suggestions.
Christina

If it is pain I would assume in his abdomen where the mass was seen. The vet also said he didn't like it when she palpated his tummy. Would any of that count as nerve pain? I haven't noticed pain noises when I pick him up, but I likely don't press on his tummy area.

So far I am sitting with him as much as possible, sleeping on the floor next to him and giving him food every time I sit with him. I have an out of town wedding in two weeks for a couple nights that I'm worried leaving him for and also can't be with him all the time because of other responsibilities, but he deserves it when I can. He is such a love bug.

 

[GinnyW]

Be sure to tell him when you are going away; and that you will be back, and will be loving him long distance the whole time, and expect him to be OK and to just rest and wait for you. Be positive, not afraid, and carry his love with you - because you both need it

 

[JulyS]

Be sure to tell him when you are going away; and that you will be back, and will be loving him long distance the whole time, and expect him to be OK and to just rest and wait for you. Be positive, not afraid, and carry his love with you - because you both need it

Thank you, Ginny. That's a good reminder.

 

[Dr. Jeff]

Is this something I should double up or call the prescribing vet and ask?

Yes, definitely ask your vet about this.

Would you recommend getting buprenex for the hard nights?

Yes!

Would any of that count as nerve pain?

Not necessarily. I think Christina mentioned Hypericum both for nerve pain and because it can help sudden and stinging pains. It can't hurt to try...